Interview with Tom Connell - Sky News Politics Now

E&OE TRANSCRIPT

TOM CONNELL HOST:   We've got the Productivity Roundtable happening next week, and that means all sorts of claims and ideas are being put forward. The headline grabber today, a four-day working week. Sounds tempting. Would it work? Is the government thinking it would be a good idea? Joining me now is the Employment and Workplace Relations Minister, Amanda Rishworth. What do you make of this idea? The unions say there's evidence for it, surveys as well being done in Australia. Does the- is the evidence there that this would actually work and this is meant to be about improving the economy and productivity at the end of the day?

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS:    Well look, of course there's a lot of different ideas that are feeding into the Productivity Roundtable. What I would say is what I hear and what the unions and businesses have often put forward, is making sure that there is flexibility around caring responsibilities, work-life balance, which is really key. Which is why, in the Secure Jobs Better Pay Bill that passed the Parliament last term, there is the right to request flexible arrangements - that could be location; that could be hours. You have the right to do that if you are balancing family and care responsibilities. So, this is why we've backed in, for example, work from home for Australia's public servants, because that flexibility is really important. So, I would say that there is examples in enterprise bargaining agreements where people have compressed hours or arrangements are made.

TOM CONNELL:    But this isn't compressed. This is just fewer. So, this is literally a whole day off. All the other hours are the same, so 20 per cent fewer hours and people will just be so much happier - they'll be 20 per cent more productive. Is that too good to be true?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I think what we've got to do is look at every industry is different and, of course, those arrangements about what works at a workplace level are best negotiated through enterprise bargaining. There are some examples in enterprise bargaining where rostered day-offs are increased so that there is less work days in a month. You see arrangements at mines, for example. So, it differs between industry and industry.

TOM CONNELL:    But this is not something you could’ve ever imagined handing on as the five-day week - the five-day working week. This is what we- the cornerstone of our modern workforce, that's not going to become a four-day working week [indistinct]…

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    What we believe and what we've said is that balancing between family responsibilities is important. There is a right to request these different working arrangements.

TOM CONNELL:    But not a right to request fewer hours, is there?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Through enterprise bargaining that can be negotiated between employers and employees. And there have been examples where a four-day working week has been negotiated.

TOM CONNELL:    That's usually with more hours overall, isn’t it?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    At times. There have been other trials done at universities where it has been four days. But ultimately, those types of flexibilities need to be negotiated through enterprise bargaining.

TOM CONNELL:    It doesn't work at, say, a cafe, does it? You've got opening hours; you need a certain number of people.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Industries vary. There are 24-7 industries. There's industries in which people work over weekends, on unsociable hours, so industries are very varied. That is why it's best negotiated at a workplace level.

TOM CONNELL:    Okay. Is there much there at the moment- if you're an employer or a business group you might feel as though within IR nothing's helped them since Labor's come to office – has it? Is there anything that's specifically been done because this will help business?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I have to say that we need to separate evidence from, actually, rhetoric. And so there has been, of course, a lot of rhetoric in industrial relations where the sky was going to fall in.

TOM CONNELL:    I'm not saying that. I'm saying, here's a change because business needs this and this will be good. Can you name a change Labor's made along those lines?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    So, let's be clear. The right to disconnect, there was a report that came out by the Australian HR Institute - not a Labor think tank, the Australian HR Institute - that said, the right to disconnect was creating more engaged workers at work and better productivity. So-

TOM CONNELL:    But that's a spin-off. You weren't making the right to disconnect to help business, were you?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I would say that reinvigorating enterprise bargaining in this country does help business and workers. It allows for more cooperative workplaces. The most recent statistics show the most amount of employees, close to 2.7 million, are now covered by enterprise bargaining agreements. Enterprise bargaining was brought in to create productivity and we're now seeing the reinvigoration of enterprise bargaining. That's good for employers and employees because it allows people to be adaptive at the workplace.

TOM CONNELL:    Working from home - Victoria now wants to make a law meaning every worker in the state, if it is viable, can work from home two days a week. Is that something Victoria can legislate or are they trying to cut your lunch here?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I haven't seen the legislation for Victoria. What Victoria is clearly signalling is that they see the value in working from home. And we share that, we share that.

TOM CONNELL:    But it’s not - I'm not talking about signalling. I'm talking about the law. The Commonwealth has this power now, does it not?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, the Commonwealth does set the Fair Work Act. There's obviously states and territories are also able to legislate in some areas. I haven't seen the details of how Victoria is planning to do that.

TOM CONNELL:    Would you support enshrining that? There's a current setting at the moment where there's an onus on employer to take that negotiation seriously, if it's possible. This is saying, no, this is your right. That's a step further, right, from where the law is at? Do you support that?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    I have to say, the way the law currently is, is able to allow employees to request, and allow them to put to their employers - I think that's a good system.

TOM CONNELL:    But going further isn't needed at the moment?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, at this point, I would say that we have enshrined the ability. Of course, there's reviews underway to look at how our laws are working. But the right to request flexible working arrangements, whether that be hours, whether that be location, is really important. Of course, working from home is popular and it does support many families.

TOM CONNELL:    So, you're comfortable with the current setting. This Victorian move goes beyond that. Would you let Victoria do that or would you seek to say, sorry, not your jurisdiction?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    It is absolutely a matter for Victoria about the legislation they pass.

TOM CONNELL:    Yes, but the legality of it.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, that is a matter for Victoria, that's not a matter from the Commonwealth.

TOM CONNELL:    So, you're not concerned about whether or not they're allowed to do this or not?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, it's entirely a matter for Victoria - it's not a matter for the Commonwealth. We have worked very hard to put in reforms which, as I said, a lot of people said the sky would fall in. We haven't seen the sky falling in with employees able to go and speak with their employers about where it's appropriate to work from home. In fact, we're seeing good outcomes.

TOM CONNELL:    So, if they sought to override the Fair Work Act, you'd be comfortable with that?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    I haven't seen the legislation, I'm not sure where they are intending to put the legislation. States and territories still have some areas where they have legislation. We obviously have legislation. It is a matter for Victoria.

TOM CONNELL:    So, if they found a way to have laws which cover Victoria that went a step further, you'd say that's up to Victoria?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    That's a matter for Victoria. What I'm focused on is the Fair Work Act and making sure that we allow for more flexibility to balance work and family. That has been put into the Act. That's available through enterprise bargaining, which we are reinvigorating.

TOM CONNELL:    Minister, appreciate your time today. Thank you.