Interview with Sally Sara - ABC Radio National Breakfast

Topics: Penalty and overtime rates legislation; Federal Court ruling on Qantas case.

SALLY SARA, HOST: The Federal Government’s legislation to enshrine penalty rate entitlements has passed the Parliament, but the Opposition has questions over how it will be applied.

[Excerpt: Tim Wilson]

SALLY SARA: That was the Shadow Employment Minister, Tim Wilson, speaking to Breakfast yesterday. Well, joining me to address some of those questions is the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Amanda Rishworth. Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: Great to be with you.

SALLY SARA: Can I just clarify, will this legislation impact current awards?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: What this legislation does is look at any variation to awards going forward. So Tim Wilson, really as shadow minister should have read the explanatory memorandum. There of course in the past have been variations that have taken away penalty rates under the Liberal Party. 

This bill does not seek to go and try and rectify those changes that were made in 2017. What this bill says that going forward any attempts to undermine penalty rates and overtime in the awards is now not able to happen if anyone is worse off - So I need to make that really clear. Now, of course there's other forms that people can use to change the terms of working arrangements through enterprise bargaining. 

What we're talking here is about the safety net in this country. And this bill is a very simple proposition. And that is that changes to awards going forward cannot reduce penalty rates or overtime.

SALLY SARA: So just to be clear on the question, will this legislation impact current awards?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, current awards exist and they can be varied at any time by parties making applications to the Fair Work Commission. There's certain principles that the Fair Work Commission must look at if any changes are going to be made into the future. There's a number of objectives already. 

This will be another objective to say that you cannot vary an award to make people go backwards when it comes to penalty rates and overtime. It's a very simple proposition. The awards exist. Parties can try and change things into the future. But when it comes to penalty rates and overtime, you won't be able to have your pay go backwards through a variation of awards into the future.

SALLY SARA: So are you expecting more traffic through the Fair Work Commission on this issue?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: No, there is regular variations that happen from time to time. What this is, is a principle that stops variations that erode people's paying conditions when it comes to overtime and penalty rates. 

So what I think this has done is made it very clear for people making applications to change the safety net, is that you can't get rid of overtime and penalty rates that would people worse off. It's a pretty simple proposition. So in fact, I think this provision makes it clearer for people when they're looking at trying to vary the safety net. 

Now, I need to be really clear. This does not stop an employer sitting down with their employees and negotiating an enterprise agreement that then goes to the Commission, and there's a better off overall test applied to it, this doesn't stop any of that from happening. What we're talking about is the safety net and making sure that people's pay doesn't go backwards.

SALLY SARA: The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry says the bill, quote, opens the door to unwind longstanding clauses that already exist in a range of modern awards. How do you respond to that?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, I don't accept that. I don't accept that position. The principle is very clear. It's very clear in the bill and the explanatory memorandum that this is inserting another principle into the principles when making, varying or rescinding awards. 

So when we look at a principle, there is already a principle in place looking at the objectives of the modern award. This is another principle put in place. Let's get to the heart of this matter. The heart of this matter is if you rely on this country's safety net for your wages and conditions, what this is saying is we don't want you to go backwards. 

We don't want,-if you're working late nights or weekends, unsociable hours or very long hours, we don't want the ability for your pay in particular to be undercut. And I think that's a really important issue. We took this to the election. The Australian people voted and we're now delivering on that election commitment.

SALLY SARA: Let's look at the issue of working from home. Much of the push by employers is driven by concerns about work from home and what they might be liable for if workers are choosing to split their days to suit their personal circumstances. Do we need legislation to hose down some of those concerns?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Working from home is really important. As we've seen, it was a big issue at the last federal election. And so, making sure that working from home can work for employers, employees, is really important. 

The location of where you work is able to be discussed and is in the Fair Work Act as a result of our flexibility changes where people have the right to request in a variety of circumstances to look at where they work, including working from home, but also how they might do their work, whether that's through what's called compressed hours, working five days a week over four days. These also can be negotiated in enterprise agreements. So we think it is really important that we have the conversation and there are a number of already provisions in place that allow that to happen.

SALLY SARA: On the issue of Qantas, Federal Court Justice Michael Lee last week ordered Qantas to pay $90 million for illegally sacking 1800 workers with $50 million going to the Transport Workers' Union to help pursue these kinds of cases again. Do you need to revisit what enforcement powers there are or giving agencies more teeth?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, firstly, I would say this was a very, very big win for the workers. And I would like to acknowledge the workers that stood up, but also the TWU who took on this fight. At the time, they believed it was illegal and they took that fight across the board. And there's a strong message here for businesses right across Australia. It's important you do comply with the law. 

Of course, we have a Fair Work Ombudsman, we have the Fair Work Commission, and we also have other jurisdictions in which these matters can be pursued. Of course, we're always looking to make sure and monitoring to make sure we've got the settings right. But in this case, it was a very clear example of the union working with its membership to stand up for these workers. And the outcome has been very decisive, very clear and sends a strong message to corporate Australia.

SALLY SARA: Amanda Rishworth, thank you for your time this morning.

ENDS