Interview with Sally Sara - ABC Radio National Breakfast

SALLY SARA, HOST:    Well, the Federal Government plans to introduce new legislation today in parliament, which it says will protect penalty and overtime rates for millions of Australians. Meanwhile, business groups warn that the intervention undermines workplace flexibility and productivity at a critical economic moment. Joining me now in our Parliament House studio is Amanda Rishworth, the Minister for Employment and Workplace relations. Minister, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS:    Great to be with you.

SALLY SARA:    Before we get to your portfolio, we’ve had breaking news this morning that Australia will lift restrictions on beef imports from the United States coming into Australia. This has been a very sensitive point for the US in our trade relationship. How confident is the Government that biosecurity won’t be sacrificed?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    The Government’s been very focused on not compromising on biosecurity. The review of the US beef imports has been a decade long, so it undergoes rigorous scientific and risk-based assessment by the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry. And they have looked at the evidence and they have got enough assurances that control measures will be in place. It is their decision to lift the ban, and they believe there enough evidence to demonstrate that the controls will be in place to ensure that there is no compromise to biosecurity.

SALLY SARA:    Is this part of the transaction on the trade deal with the United States?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    This review has been going on for a decade, and has been undertaken by the department. They look at the scientific evidence and the risk-based assessment, and that's what the decision is based on.

SALLY SARA:    The Albanese Government said it would never compromise on biosecurity. What's changed on the US side when it comes to traceability and other measures that reassures Australia that there's not a risk anymore?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    So the department has undertaken obviously a very extensive process. They've been doing it on an ongoing basis, and they believe that there are enough controls in place in the US to protect our biosecurity. They've been reassured by that and they have the evidence. They've looked at this very carefully and believe the right controls are now in place to protect our biosecurity.

SALLY SARA:    When are you expecting a deal with the United States on trade?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, that is something that we will continue to prosecute. We believe in fair trade. In fact, when it comes to beef, we are still exporting a lot of beef to the US. It's still popular. In fact, beef was worth $14 billion worth of exports in the last 12 months, so this is a wonderful commodity that people around the world want. When it comes to trade, we will continue to prosecute our case. We have the lowest tariff level of any other country, but we will still continue to prosecute fair trade with the US as an ally and a trading partner.

SALLY SARA:    Let's go back to your portfolio, a look at penalty and overtime rates. So you want to legislate now on these issues. Why is the Government doing that rather than waiting for the Fair Work Commission to hand down its ruling? Why not let the independent umpire make the decision?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, at the moment, there is a provision in the Fair Work Act that does go some way to protecting penalty and overtime rates. But in light of a number of cases in front of the Fair Work Commission, we believe as a Government that the safety net should protect penalty rates and overtime. There are many award-reliant workers that really rely on penalty rates and overtime, when they work weekends and late nights, that really make up a large proportion of their take-home pay. We want to put it beyond doubt that penalty rates and overtime in the awards can be eroded because we don't want to see people paid less.

SALLY SARA:    Your government is driving to increase productivity. What the retailers want is to streamline the system. Doesn't this go against productivity?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, first I would say that paying people less does not improve productivity. Reducing people's take-home pay does not improve productivity. When it comes to individual arrangements at workplaces, this provision does not change the enterprise bargaining framework. The enterprise bargaining framework is a really important framework that allows for flexibility at a workplace level to help with the specific workplace needs and productivity at that workplace. We know that when enterprise bargaining is in place, workers get paid more, but there are more workplace level flexibilities. We believe that is the right place to look at how you match workplace conditions with what the workplace needs and where you get productivity gains.

SALLY SARA:    Under the new laws, businesses can't offer employees the choice to trade penalty rate structures for higher, more predictable base salaries. Won't this mean additional costs and administration for businesses?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    So businesses can talk to their employees about those things in enterprise agreements, and they are subject to what is called The Better Off Overall Test. So there is nothing precluding employers to sit down with their employees and negotiate an enterprise agreement that looks at all of these things. What we are saying is that in the award system, which is the basic safety net for paying conditions in this country, that is not the place to trade away penalty rates and overtime, because that creates the basic safety net. So there is nothing precluding employers from sitting down and talking with their employees about more streamlined arrangements, and they can submit those enterprise agreements. And as long as they meet the Better Off Overall Test, that is the place to negotiate with employees and unions, not by eroding the award system, which is the safety net in this country.

SALLY SARA:    The Australian Retailers Association says its salary absorption proposal, which incorporates penalty rates to provide a higher base salary and improve security, is a common sense option, offering some workers a 35 per cent increase on their base salary. Why do you believe that workers would be getting a worse deal if their salary was boosted by a third in this kind of scenario?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, there's nothing to prevent anyone from putting an application to the Fair Work Commission. What our provision does is protect penalty rates and ensures that no worker will be worse off. So if there is a case where no worker is worse off as a result of the reduction of penalty rates, then that is something that, of course, the Commission can consider. What we don't want to see is some workers being worse off, having their take-home pay cut for those that rely on the system. That is our basic safety net, and to have workers going backwards isn't good for anyone. So there is the ability still to put applications where no worker is worse off, and the Commission will consider that. That's something that can be done. But if some workers are worse off, we don't want to see those workers miss out and lose take-home pay as a result.

SALLY SARA:    On another workplace issue, following a six-month trial into the effects of a four-day working week, a new peer-reviewed research published in Nature Human Behaviour shows an improvement for physical and mental health of employees, as well as a boost in job satisfaction, provided of course there's no change in income. Looking ahead to the Productivity Roundtable next month, is the four-day working week something the government is willing to have a look at?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well look, there'll be a lot of things brought to the Productivity Roundtable. That is not a priority of the Government at the moment.

SALLY SARA:    Why not?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, it's not a priority of the Government because we've been very clear that we want to deliver on our election commitments first and foremost, and protecting penalty rates and putting a submission into the Fair Work Commission for an increase in the minimum wage. Of course, banning unfair non-compete clauses in the Fair Work Act for low-income earners have been our priority. And we have taken steps to ensure that the wellbeing of workers is looked after. Our right to disconnect laws, as an example, have demonstrated that more than 50 per cent of employers surveyed said that that has improved employee engagement and has actually meant for more productive workplaces. So we will continue, of course, to engage through the productivity roundtable, but a four-day working week is not our priority.

SALLY SARA:    Minister, thank you very much