Interview with Sylvia Jeffreys - The Today Show, Channel Nine

SYLVIA JEFFREYS, HOST:    Communications Minister Anika Wells is facing fresh scrutiny over her expenses this morning. First, there was a $190,000 trip to New York. Then there was $3600 for a trip to Adelaide, 1400 for a family trip to Thredbo. And this morning we’ve learned of new expenses – $4000 on flights to the cricket and an $1800 trip to the Formula One. Joining us to discuss today's headlines is Minister for Employment Amanda Rishworth and Nine reporter and 3AW host Heidi Murphy. Morning to you both. Amanda, I'll go to you first. Taxpayers are pretty outraged by this. It's all within the rules, but does it pass the pub test?

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS:    Well, what I would say is that Minister Wells has a really important job, both as Minister for Communications and Minister for Sport. And as we're about to start our world-leading social media bans, of course, the travel to actually talk about these overseas was important. So, look, the Minister has extensively answered questions yesterday on this, made it very clear that it was all within the rules and the guidelines and that she followed them.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    Do you concede, though, this doesn't wash well with voters who are having to watch every penny in their own family budgets?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, of course people are doing it tough, and of course as members of Parliament we have to be very careful. But as the Minister has said, she has been very clear about answering the questions yesterday that she did follow the rules and it was for work purposes.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    Heidi, what do you make of it all?

HEIDI MURPHY, 3AW HOST:    Well, I think it was about getting her partner to a number of events where I assumed she was enjoying some free hospitality, and her partner was then enjoying some free hospitality. I really don't think it is too much to ask for a minister to pay for a few domestic flights. Sure, they're small enough amounts. Sure, they're within the spirit of the- within the guidelines, but are they within what the community would expect? I don't think so. Why not just pay for these flights yourself?

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    Amanda, do the rules need to change?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I think the rules very explicitly talk about work being the dominant purpose, and that's really important. And of course, Minister Wells has answered extensively yesterday that these were work-purpose flights.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    Can we pretend for a second that you don't actually organise some work events around being in town for other events, for friends' parties?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I can't speak for how people organise their diaries, but Minister Wells has been extensively asked that, made it very, very clear that this was for work purposes. And it was- again, she followed the guidelines.

HEIDI MURPHY:    Well, why does her partner have to be flown to Melbourne for the cricket at our expense? Why is that our expense? Why is it our responsibility, taxpayers? Why?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, as I said, Minister Wells has extensively answered these questions and made it very clear that she followed the guidelines.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    I think you're right to ask that question, Heidi, because it might be within the rules, but a lot of people are struggling to understand why these expenses are necessary, especially in the economic environment that we're living in at the moment.

HEIDI MURPHY:    When so many of our taxpayer dollars go out of our hands. We are taxed left, right and centre, constantly taxed, and we want to make sure our money is being used in a responsible way.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    You can understand the frustration in the community. Meantime, one thing is for certain right now, this controversy does threaten to overshadow the social media ban that Anika Wells should be out spruiking this week. It comes into effect, of course, on Wednesday. Speaking of which, Amanda, the SMH has this morning revealed that while voters do back the ban, less than a third of parents plan to fully enforce it. It sounds like they're not afraid of consequences here. So what will be the consequences if people are found to be ignoring these new laws?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, let's be really clear. This is not about consequences for parents or children. It is consequences for big tech. The obligation is on them to put processes in place to make sure that under-16-year-olds are not able to get an account to actually do the harm that these algorithms do to your children. We've been very clear that this is a world-leading law, and it won't necessarily be perfect on day dot. But what it does is it changes the social norms. It gives parents like myself the ability to say to my children, you can't have a social media account because you're under the age of 16. That is the law. So it empowers parents, most importantly, but the obligation and responsibility is on big tech.

HEIDI MURPHY:    Parents are allowed to say no also, you know. Parents can just say no.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    Well, that's it. In the meantime, before I let you go, though, I want to ask your thoughts on this – particular you, Heidi. The 72-hour trial job interview which is popular among tech firms in the US is making its way down under. What do you make of this? A 72-hour, like, road test in the office before you sign on?

HEIDI MURPHY:    I mean, are you going to be getting a real picture of the person in 72 hours? They'll be on their best behaviour. They won't bring tuna to the lunchroom. They won't make a mess at their desk. They won't be offensive in the workplace. I mean, maybe you're not getting a real sense of their character in those 72 hours.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    I'm offended by your reference to tuna consumers, Heidi.

HEIDI MURPHY:    No, you're not.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    Amanda, as Employment Minister, do you support a 72-hour trial, and do you support tuna in the office?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I don't really support tuna in the office. But I have to say some things are worse. I don't even know what goes in the microwave, but that smell can go through the whole office.

But look, obviously making sure people are able to match well with jobs is important. I note that some of these are actually paid, but as it's also been noted, it's hard for people if they're already in a job, how do you go for one of these interviews? It feels like a long, long way away from the time where I sort of went round knocking on supermarket doors trying to give them my resume, but I got a job out of that, and I think I performed quite well at that.

SYLVIA JEFFREYS:    Not sure I would have got my job at Channel 9 if I'd been given 72 hours as a test. Amanda, Heidi, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We appreciate it. See you soon.