Interview with Tom Elliott - 3AW Mornings

TOM ELLIOTT, HOST: All right, so it is reported today that the CFMEU has been infiltrated by criminal bikie gangs. Our next guest is the Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Murray Watt. Good morning.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: G'day, Tom, good to be with you.

TOM ELLIOTT: So, are these reports true?

MURRAY WATT: Well, certainly, I think they're very concerning reports that have been in the papers today. And I have been hearing similar things around threats being made by bikies and organised crime figures who are pretty unhappy that their corrupt business practices are being disrupted by the administrator who has been appointed to run the CFMEU. You'll remember when all of those allegations aired in the media a few months ago around the infiltration of the union by bikies and organised crime, that was a major concern, I think, for the public and for the government, and was one of the reasons that we introduced legislation around the administration. So, the fact that these threats are continuing is obviously a concern. At another level, I guess, it shows that these people are under pressure, which is exactly how it should be.

TOM ELLIOTT: It's reported in The Age this morning that one ex-union leader in Victoria has now taken to carrying a pistol because he's getting so many threats from bikie groups. Is that true?

MURRAY WATT: That was the first I'd heard about that particular claim, so I'm not able to shed any light on that myself. But I certainly have heard that there are a number of officials still working in the CFMEU who are trying to do the right thing, along with the administrator and his team who have been subjected to very serious threats. You might remember it was reported in the media a few weeks ago that Mark Irving, who has been appointed as the administrator of the union to try to clean it up and make sure members are properly represented, he has been the subject of a very serious death threat. And now it seems that there are other people trying to turn the organisation around who are being threatened as well, which has got to absolutely stop.

TOM ELLIOTT: How many bikie gangs are we talking about? I mean, The Age mentions the Rebels outlaw motorcycle gang, but are there other ones involved as well?

MURRAY WATT: It's a little unclear and that's for some of the stuff that's being investigated at the moment, Tom. But there certainly have been previous allegations about the involvement of some members of the Mongols and the Hells Angels in different branches of the CFMEU construction division in different states. And you know, it is a real concern that this seems to be proliferating. As I say, I think it's a good thing that some of these people are starting to feel the pressure, that their corrupt business practices are coming to an end. But no one should be subjected to these kind of threats in their workplace, whether they're a union official or a construction worker or anyone else.

TOM ELLIOTT: Are you comfortable that the CFMEU is the dominant union across all of Victoria's Big Build sites? I mean, whether it's the cross-city rail tunnel, the North East Link, the West Gate Tunnel, it's all CFMEU. Now, given these revelations, should they be the union that effectively controls those sites?

MURRAY WATT: I don't have an issue with construction workers being members of a union that they choose to be members of. And I think it stands to reason that the construction union would be the major union involved in construction. Obviously, there are a lot of efforts now being taken to clean up that union and return its focus to focusing on its members rather than people drawing private benefit. There are, of course, other unions involved in the industry as well, like the ETU, the AMWU, the Plumbers Union, others as well. But I think it stands to reason that the CFMEU would be the dominant union. The issue is that, you know, people are entitled to have a strong and effective union, but it's got to be a clean union as well.

TOM ELLIOTT: Well, are you confident that Mark Irving, who's the administrator of the union, he was appointed by Fair Work. Will he be able to turn it round?

MURRAY WATT: I think he is already starting to turn it around, Tom. You know, it'll take a long time. It's not going to be something that's done just in this year. But already we've seen the administrator has terminated about 12 officials, quite senior officials from the union around the country. There are more suspensions as well. And this is one of the reasons why I'm really concerned, I don't know if you've seen this, but today in the Senate here in Canberra, we're going to be debating a motion that's been put up by Senator Fatima Payman from Western Australia, the Senator who left the Labor Party a few months ago. She's trying to set up a Senate inquiry that will call the administrator to talk about what he is up to. And it's now being supported by Michaelia Cash and the Coalition at the very time that the administrator is being subjected to these sorts of threats, has a number of different criminal and other investigations underway based on very sensitive information that people have come forward on. The Coalition and Senator Payman want to bring the administrator before the Parliament to spill the beans. It is so reckless and really runs the risk of undermining the administration.

TOM ELLIOTT: But so why is that? I mean, it's normal for Parliament to get senior officials of, you know, heads of the public service, unions, you know, all sorts of people to come and say, well, what are you up to? I mean, why is it so wrong that he come and at least tell Parliament what he's been doing?

MURRAY WATT: A couple of things, Tom. For starters, he is completely independent of government or Parliament. You usually have Senate Estimates hearings that involve asking questions of public servants. He's not in that category. But beyond that, there are very real risks to his safety, his team's safety, union officials' safety. And for the sake of politics, the Coalition and Senator Payman want to bring him before the Parliament to spill the beans about what he's up to. There are people who've taken a very big risk in coming forward to provide information to the administrator. He shouldn't be forced to disclose those types of things. And in addition, we've got a High Court case being held about this legislation in only three weeks time. It's very likely that any evidence the administrator provides to that hearing would be used by the opponents of this administration. So, as I say, I think this is just an incredibly reckless move from the Coalition and Senator Payman, you know, really just the political gain that will enable the very people who are opposed to this administration happening.

TOM ELLIOTT: All right, thank you for your time. Murray Watt there, Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations.