Interview with Steve Austin - ABC Brisbane Mornings

E&OE Transcript 

STEVE AUSTIN, HOST: Now let me go back to the story I mentioned earlier on this morning. So yesterday in the nation’s capital Canberra Labor Party Senator Murray Watt, the federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, introduced what they described as ‘urgent’ legislation to require the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union - or the CFMEU - into administration or under the power of administrator. That’s if they opposed what the Federal Government is trying to do. It’s not clear if the government will get the necessary support from the Opposition and the Greens on the crossbenches to see this legislation passed as a matter of priority. I spoke with Senator Murray Watt early this morning and asked him to explain to me exactly what these laws would do.
 
MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: Yeah, I actually introduced the laws into the Senate yesterday - in the Senate in Canberra, obviously, Steve. I had to take a few procedural steps to get the bills introduced, but they’ve now been introduced. And the key now is to get this bill passed as quickly as possible because we really need action taken urgently. I am pretty concerned at some of the delay tactics that we’re seeing from both the Coalition and the Greens. A lot of people have been saying that we need to take action and now we have an opportunity to do so. So it’s important that they get on board. And I’d like to have this bill at least passed through the Senate this week.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: OK, so what will the laws achieve, in simple, direct terms, please, Senator?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah so the way these laws have been structured – and I should say it’s in response to a court application that the Fair Work Commission General Manager made a bit over a week ago that so far has not been consented to by the CFMEU. I said at the time that if they didn’t consent by the time Parliament returned we would introduce laws, and these laws would give me as the minister the power to decide if it’s in the public interest to appoint an administrator to the whole construction division of the CFMEU. So there’s a couple of steps there–
 
STEVE AUSTIN: So that would mean that you could take control of the CFMEU Australia wide?
 
MURRAY WATT: It wouldn’t be me personally, but I would be appointing an administrator, an external administrator, to effectively stand in the shoes of the construction division of the CFMEU nationwide. Wouldn’t apply to other divisions of the CFMEU, and it wouldn’t apply to any other unions. This is a very targeted effort at the construction division of the CFMEU because of the range of allegations that we’ve seen recently around organised crime, bikies, and it’s simply got to stop.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: My guest is Senator Murray Watt, Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. How would the appointment of an administrator solve the problem of allegations around the CFMEU members allegedly bullying and intimidating federal workers and other union members?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, so under the legislation, Steve, the administrator would have very wide powers to take a range of actions to clean up the construction division of the union. They would have the power to seize assets and seize financial control of the union. They would have power to vacate a range of office-bearing roles and even terminate the employment of some of the officials and employees of the union who’ve done the wrong thing. I want to be clear that we’re not talking about every single employee of the union being terminated - there are obviously many staff in the union who’ve had nothing to do with this behaviour. But there are some who have, and they need to go. So that power would be granted to the administrator. Essentially, they would then run the union on behalf of its members and in the best interests of its members for a three-year period. And really, the idea is about rebuilding this union so that – we want to have a strong union in the construction industry. It’s a dangerous, hard-working industry and the workers there deserve good representation, but they also deserve a clean union that is free from criminality and the allegations of corruption and organised crime that have been going on too long.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: Would the administrator, if you have to appoint him or her, would they have power over the actual construction companies or developers? Because big companies like Hutchinsons and Mirvac, these businesses have been aware of all that’s been going on. It’s almost impossible for them to not be. So would there be any power or ability for the administrator to also deal with the major construction companies covering these projects as well?
 
MURRAY WATT: It’s a really good point, Steve. And a point that I’ve been making is that just as we have seen allegations surface about bad behaviour from officials and people around the union, we need to recognise that if there’s a union official taking a bribe, there’s an employer paying a bribe-
 
STEVE AUSTIN: Absolutely. Absolutely yes.
 
MURRAY WATT: And we need to make sure that this is an even-handed approach-
 
STEVE AUSTIN: Or not even taking a bribe but turning a blind eye to these practices on their job sites that they are ultimately legally responsible for.
 
MURRAY WATT: Exactly. And, as I say, like, this is not an exercise in shutting down a union or anything like that; it’s an exercise in cleaning up the union while we also take a much broader look at the construction industry as a whole. Some of the other things that my predecessor Tony Burke had done before I took on this role was refer a range of allegations to the AFP for investigation. Some of them may well involve employer conduct. He’s also referred other allegations to the Fair Work Ombudsman to take action where necessary. I do think that we need to have a good look at the conduct of some of the employers in the industry. But the administration itself is really focused on the union so that, as I say, we can clean up the union, return it to focusing on the best interests of its members, which, of course, is what the union’s role is.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: My guest is Federal Labor Senator Murray Watt, Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. He’s brought in legislation to force the CFMEU into administration if he can get the bill through the Houses of Parliament, for the appointment of an administrator.
 
This is 612 ABC Brisbane. Steve Austin’s my name.
 
How have you coordinated with the Minister for State Development, Infrastructure and Industrial Relations here in Queensland, Grace Grace? Because apparently they’re going to make our laws align with your legislation. How have you coordinated with Grace Grace here, Murray Watt?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah so I’ve had a number of conversations now with both Grace Grace and the Premier, who are both very deeply engaged in replicating what we’re doing at a state level-
 
STEVE AUSTIN: They’re on board with what you’re doing?
 
MURRAY WATT: A hundred per cent. And not only they are, but the ACTU recently passed a resolution of its national executive supporting on behalf of the union movement the administration being processed for the CFMEU. So this has very wide support from the union movement, from the Labor Party in Queensland, obviously federally as well. Employer groups have been demanding that this legislation be passed as quickly as possible. It’s interesting that some of the groups who traditionally have been supporters of the Coalition are calling on the Coalition to pass this legislation immediately.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: Yes.
 
MURRAY WATT: Not have Senate inquiries or any of those delay tactics. We need to get this done. But, yes, to make this work we do need the states and territories to pass mirror legislation because the way the union is structured it has both federally registered branches and state registered branches. And, really, the intent is to come over the top of all of it, have a good look under the bonnet and get this union functioning properly again.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: Have you spoken with or tried to meet with, say, Michael Ravbar from the CFMEU here in Queensland? Previously he’s described at least Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister, as being a ‘bed wetter’ was the metaphor he used. And later on I think he accused the Labor Party of betrayal. Have you spoken with him or tried to meet Michael Ravbar here in Queensland?
 
MURRAY WATT: No, I haven’t, Steve. I think the last conversation I had with Michael Ravbar was nearly a year ago at the ALP national conference. And I think that was the first conversation we’ve had for four or five years. And I don’t think it’s appropriate for me to be dealing with officials from the union, particularly at this point in time. I also haven’t had any direct contact with the national secretary of the union, Zach Smith. Really, I think Mr Ravbar has chosen to communicate with me via the media, and that’s what he does. But whatever he says our intent is clear. Some of these problems have been going on for a long time. They need to be dealt with, and we’re firmly committed to it. And that is, again, why we need the support of the Coalition and the Greens. You know, I cannot believe that the Greens party representatives in Brisbane would be standing with John Setka and some of the other characters in the CFMEU rather than helping us pass legislation to get this done.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: Are the Greens doing that here? Are the Greens siding with the CFMEU here in Queensland?
 
MURRAY WATT: I couldn’t really speak to what’s happening in the state parliament, Steve. But, certainly, you know, there are three Greens Lower House Members here in Canberra from Brisbane. There are two senators from the Greens from Queensland here in Canberra. And all of the indications we’re getting from the Greens are at the moment that they’re not in a hurry to do this. They’ve got all sorts of questions that they want to deal with. And I’m really concerned that in the end they’re going to side with, as I say, John Setka and people like that rather than what I think their voters would expect and what I think the whole Queensland community expects.
 
We’ll actually have an opportunity to test this today, Steve, because we’ve put a motion in the Senate today which seeks to bring this legislation to a vote by tomorrow lunchtime, Thursday lunchtime. So if the Coalition and the Greens are serious about helping tackle these problems, today they can vote with us to bring this legislation to a vote in the Senate tomorrow.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: This is 612 ABC Brisbane. My guest is the Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Senator Murray Watt. Murray Watt, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has been granted leave to go back to the High Court and make a case that Hutchinson and the CFMEU members did – or had an arrangement or an understanding to produce a boycott of a subcontractor at a job site here in Brisbane so that work couldn’t be performed. Will your laws be able to tackle this sort of thing where CFMEU members are under Queensland BPIC arrangements have to be consulted. If they don’t like a subcontractor, word is that they can shut them out of any construction site. Clearly, it’s gone to the High Court now. The ACCC have said, ‘We’re dealing with this’. Will your laws make this stronger at all?
 
MURRAY WATT: The laws that we’re seeking to pass at the moment, Steve, won’t deal with that; they very focused on the administration of the construction division of the union. As you say that matter is now before the High Court so I probably shouldn’t really comment on that. But clearly the government has taken a position through the ACCC, and there are existing laws to deal with these issues. I might just say one more thing about employers, Steve. I do want to acknowledge that there are many employers in the industry who have very cooperative relationship with unions. And we don’t want to stop that. You know, we’re a Labor Government we support collective agreements that involve employers and unions. But unfortunately, there do seem to have been some employers who, you know, beyond reaching agreements with unions have been involved in and enabled bad practices, and that’s where our focus really needs to be.
 
STEVE AUSTIN: Senator Murray Watt, thanks for your time.
 
MURRAY WATT: Thanks, Steve.