Interview with Sarah Ferguson - ABC 7.30
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
SARAH FERGUSON, HOST: The Prime Minister unveiled his first reshuffle since the federal election. Senator Murray watt takes over core Labor business with the Employment and Workplace Relations portfolio. His immediate task is driving the clean up of the CFMEU after allegations of criminal infiltration of the organisation. I spoke to him earlier. Murray Watt, congratulations on your new position, and welcome to 7.30.
MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: Thanks, Sarah, great to be with you.
SARAH FERGUSON: How important is it for the Labor Government to deal decisively with this rogue, corrupt union, the CFMEU, before the next election?
MURRAY WATT: I think it's vital that we deal with the CFMEU and its entrenched culture once and for all, Sarah. This is something that previous governments have failed to adequately deal with despite having organisations like the ABCC in place. The Albanese Government is determined to deal with this problem once and for all. Obviously, today is day one for me in this new job, but the very first briefing I had from the department focused on this topic, that's how seriously I regard it, and I know that's how seriously the Prime Minister regards it, too.
SARAH FERGUSON: Will you be able to convince the public that this level of corruption, with its deep roots and long history doesn't reflect on the labour movement itself and the party which sprung from it?
MURRAY WATT: I definitely think that the Australian public can see both from the decisive action that the Albanese Government is taking, but also from the reaction of the broader union movement, that we regard this behaviour as abhorrent and something that needs to be stamped out. The overwhelming majority of the union movement in Australia is appalled by these allegations, just as your viewers are as well. I think people are sick and tired of this behaviour occurring. They want to see action, and that's exactly what they'll get from me and from the Albanese Government.
SARAH FERGUSON: How close is the Fair Work Commission to appointing an administrator to the CFMEU?
MURRAY WATT: My understanding is that they are getting pretty close now. Of course, there is a legal process that needs to be followed by the General Manager of the Fair Work Commission in beginning the steps to put the union into administration. The General Manager has been gathering the evidence to justify that complaint and that application. Of course, we know that the CFMEU is a cashed up union, it is known for running long standing litigation, and we want to make sure that this is watertight. I am sure the General Manager of the Fair Work Commission wants to do the same thing. That's why it has taken a little bit of time to get this process underway. But I know that he's determined to move as quickly as possible, as is the government.
SARAH FERGUSON: Now, what does that tell us, the way you referred to the CFMEU there, about their attitude towards an incoming administrator? Are they going to cooperate, or will they resist?
MURRAY WATT: I guess that's a question for the CFMEU, ultimately. But both in their statements to date and their past record, you wouldn't be very hopeful that the CFMEU would cooperate with this administration, and that's why both Tony Burke, as the former minister, and myself, are making clear that the government is prepared to pass legislation to ensure that this administration can progress. We want to make sure that we can remove any barriers that exist and that are put in the way of this process by the CFMEU, because I think all Australians want to see this matter dealt with.
SARAH FERGUSON: And just briefly on the matter of the administrator. Is one administrator enough? Or will you need an administrator for the Victorian branch and the New South Wales branch?
MURRAY WATT: These are matters that we're giving consideration to at the moment, Sarah. When it comes to appointing an administrator, I think it's most likely that it would be an individual, that it would be sought to lead the administration. Your question might also be referring to how many branches of the CFMEU we are likely to see be put into administration. Basically, again, that is a matter for the General Manager of the Fair Work Commission, but we have said that this won't be restricted necessarily to New South Wales and Victoria, and we will back the General Manager's actions however far that scope needs to be to get this job done.
SARAH FERGUSON: We know, of course, that the CFMEU has been talking to its members since the story broke. But as far as you know, are there still individuals with connections to organised crime or bikies still working as delegates or intermediaries for the CFMEU?
MURRAY WATT: Look the briefings that I've had so far, Sarah, don't really answer that question. I haven't been advised on whether that exists or not. But I think all of us who have watched these allegations surface in recent weeks are dismayed at the extent of the apparent involvement of organised crime and bikies in the CFMEU. And I think that these are exactly the matters that the General Manager of the Fair Work Commission is gathering evidence on at the moment.
SARAH FERGUSON: And what about you as the incoming Minister, isn't that something that you wanted an answer to? Are there still bikies in the CFMEU in positions right now?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, I guess my attention today was to really understand the process and how we can get this administration moving as quickly as possible. I don't need to be convinced that we need to be taking action. I'll be meeting again with the department in the morning, as I will be the following the following day, and the day after that as well. So, we'll get into more detail, but my main priority today was to make sure that this administration process is proceeding as expeditiously as possible.
SARAH FERGUSON: And does the Labor Government accept some of the responsibility for the cost that will be or will already have been borne by taxpayers on those large infrastructure projects and housing bills as the CFMEU drove up building costs?
MURRAY WATT: Well, I guess this raises the question about what people knew, and I've seen Peter Dutton and others say that we should have known that this sort of stuff was going on, I mean, I'd make the point that all of the allegations that have been raised to date occurred on the Coalition’s watch when they had the ABCC in place. So, if Mr Dutton thinks that something should have been done a while ago, he had every opportunity to do so while he was in government. I don't think that anyone knew the scale of involvement, it would seem, of organised crime in the CFMEU. But as you would have seen the moment that these revelations came to light, our government took action and will continue to do so.
SARAH FERGUSON: Of course, to be clear, certainly, the Premier in Victoria, the Labor Premier of Victoria, Jacinta Allan, was informed that there had been acts of, at the very least, thuggery against Indigenous labour hire companies. So, the Labor Government in Victoria knew.
MURRAY WATT: I have seen the Premier address that point, and she has outlined the actions that she is taking in response to that. But I want to make clear from the Albanese Government's point of view, and I think all Australian’s point of view, we want to make clear that there is absolutely no place for violence or thuggery on any work site, whether it be a construction work site or anything else. One of the fundamental values of the union movement in Australia is to ensure that workers have a safe place of work. It is very clear that that hasn't been happening enough on construction worksites where the CFMEU has been present, and we want to make sure that we can turn that around.
SARAH FERGUSON: At the same time, Anthony Albanese kicked John Setka out of the Labor Party, albeit for slightly different circumstances related to Rosie Batty. However, he was considered persona non grata, but he was someone that you were prepared to accept money from. Why was that?
MURRAY WATT: Well, I wouldn't say that we accepted money from John Setka himself. Of course, we –
SARAH FERGUSON: Money organised and channelled by John Setka.
MURRAY WATT: We have made clear, especially since these allegations have surfaced, that we're not prepared to take donations from any of the suspended divisions of the CFMEU. And that ban on donations has been implemented not just at federal level, but across a number of states now as well. You know, I've heard the calls from Peter Dutton and others that we should be returning donations received previously. I think that would be an insane thing to do, because that would be simply handing back that money to the very people who've been running this organisation into the ground.
SARAH FERGUSON: And just briefly, and forgive me for this, because obviously you've walked into a huge portfolio, but you're coming in on the back of three rounds of ambitious changes to industrial relations in Australia, is there more to come? How ambitious do you intend to be between now and the next election?
MURRAY WATT: I'm glad you raised that, Sarah, because obviously, as much as the CFMEU issues are a very high priority for me, my single highest priority in this job will to be to make sure that we continue delivering the higher wages and more secure jobs that our legislation has begun delivering. We all know that the biggest challenge facing Australians right now is cost of living pressures. And I want to make clear that making sure people have growing wages is a really important part of dealing with those cost-of-living pressures. We don't have any immediate plans to introduce more industrial relations reform around workplace conditions this term. From our perspective, it's mostly about bedding down the legislation that's been passed and importantly highlighting the risk that Australians face if we see a change of government at the next election. So, for us, it's about bedding down those reforms and protecting them for the future by making sure that the Labor Government has returned.
SARAH FERGUSON: Murray Watt, especially today, congratulations again, and thank you very much for joining us.
MURRAY WATT: Thanks. Sarah.