Interview with Sally Sara - ABC RN Breakfast

SALLY SARA, HOST: Well, fresh jobs data is due to come out today and the Reserve Bank will be watching very closely as we edge towards another interest rate decision in less than two weeks’ time. Analysts expect that the jobless rate will remain steady at 4.1 per cent, despite earlier predictions the unemployment rate was set to creep up at the start of this year. Joining me now is Murray Watt, the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: G'day, Sally. Good to be with you.

SALLY SARA: What sort of figures are you hoping for today with employment? What's a healthy figure?

MURRAY WATT: Well, we'd certainly expect today's figures to be roughly the same as what we've seen in the last couple of months, Sally. I think the important thing is that we want to make sure that the unemployment remains in that historically low range that we've seen over the last couple of years. It's quite remarkable when you consider the uncertainty that not just the Australian economies faced, but globally, that we've managed to create 1.15 million new jobs just in this parliamentary term already. And that's actually the most new jobs that have ever been created in a single parliamentary term in Australia's history under any kind of government.

So we'd certainly be hopeful today of seeing some further jobs growth and keeping that unemployment rate low. I think there's some really other great features that we've seen in these figures over the last few months, and that is, you know, increasing female employment - we've now got more women working in Australia than we've ever seen before. We've got higher participation in the labour market with more people working and looking for work than we ever have before, lower rates of youth unemployment and other areas where traditionally we have seen higher unemployment. So, you know, it's a real credit to the workers and employers of Australia that we continue to keep these sort of job numbers happening despite the challenging conditions we've been facing.

SALLY SARA: The public sector has been adding more jobs than the private sector in areas such as NDIS, but also in public administration. To what extent is government spending making the unemployment rate look better than it would otherwise?

MURRAY WATT: There's no doubt that increased government funding has influenced the labour market and we've been able to achieve some real change in sectors of the economy that desperately needed it. I don't think that anyone would be arguing that we need fewer aged care workers or fewer early childhood educators. So, of course, the government funding that we've provided in those sectors, along with disability care, has been important for job creation. But if you have a close look at the figures, four out of five of the new jobs that have been created since we came to office have actually been in the private sector. So there's been very good news for the private sector in terms of jobs growth, just as there has been in the public sector as well. Of course, as we head into an election, that is going to be an issue because we know that Peter Dutton has already promised to cut 30-odd thousand jobs from the public sector. They've got to come from somewhere, they've got to come from areas like Medicare and health, disability care. So, that will be a really sharp contrast as we head into the election.

SALLY SARA: Minister, moving to fresh allegations levelled at the embattled construction division of the CFMEU reported this week. With more police investigations underway, as well as legal challenges to the administration, has that affected what Mark Irving can really do? Are his hands tied here to some extent?

MURRAY WATT: I wouldn't say that the Administrator's hands are tied, and I think you can see the progress that he and his team have been making in the relatively few months that they've been in the role. But undoubtedly the fact that we still have a High Court decision hanging over this administration is something that is impeding his ability to make further progress. But I know that there was a very strong reaction to the revelations that we saw this week, and that was justified. You know, horrific things that we were seeing on construction sites, not just within the union, but also within some employers and the wider industry. But we also need to remember that those revelations came to light because of the investigations the Administrator has been undertaking. He's already sacked dozens of officials, organisers, delegates from within the union, as well as having these investigations underway. We'll now be able to see those, those allegations investigated by police. Unfortunately there is a cancer that's been residing within the CFMEU and the wider construction industry, and as we dig that cancer out, we are going to learn more about what's been going on and then that enables action to be taken by the Administrator and others.

SALLY SARA: A former CFMEU delegate, Mario Barrios, has told Nine newspapers that Mr Irving and police are not capable of tackling issues within the industry. Given that further allegations keep emerging, is he right? What more needs to be done?

MURRAY WATT: We never expected that this would be an issue that would be solved overnight. I mean, this has been deeply embedded corruption and criminality, both within this one union, but also the wider construction industry, and it's been going on for years. It was going on under the Coalition Government. Many of these revelations actually occurred during the last government when they had an ABCC in place and did nothing to fix it. So we always knew that it was going to take time for these things to be dealt with. But as I say, I think the progress that the Administrator and his team have already made by removing some of the worst individuals from this union, by digging out more information that can now be investigated and prosecuted by police and prosecutors - that's a positive change. I also thought, frankly, that it was a positive thing this week that we saw Zach Smith, the National Secretary of the CFMEU, in his capacity leading the Victorian branch, got a resolution passed of all of their delegates - hundreds of delegates - saying there is no place for criminality in the CFMEU, that respect for women needs to improve. There's a long way to go, but we are seeing some positive signs of change, and we want to see more.

SALLY SARA: Minister, let's talk about women and the CFMEU. According to Nine newspapers today, bureaucrats under Labor earlier this year awarded almost $5.5 million to a fund aligned with the CFMEU to help encourage more women into construction. That was, of course, only a week before allegations were made about members committing domestic violence. Was that funding a good decision?

MURRAY WATT: Well, the first thing to bear in mind about this is that the CFMEU is not receiving any money from the government under this grant - the recipient of the grant is an organisation called Incolink. It's a joint union and employer entitlements fund, and it's actually put together a consortium of 17 partners in this project, which is all about improving the position of women in the construction industry. The partners in this project include unions, construction firms, employer groups, and Our Watch, which of course is one of our nation's leading organisations around the prevention of gendered violence. So I think it's a good thing that we've got a government that's prepared to invest in organisations that are connected to the industry, that are serious about changing the culture.

SALLY SARA: Even those funds and organisations that are aligned with the CFMEU?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I don't think it's fair to say that they're solely aligned with the CFMEU–

SALLY SARA: But the CFMEU is part of this consortium, correct?

MURRAY WATT: They are, as are a number of other unions and employers. And Incolink - the group receiving the fund - just as it's ‘aligned’, if you want to say, to the CFMEU, it's aligned to the Master Builders Association. It's a joint union and employer organisation rather than being a union-only firm. And I think, frankly, these kind of investments with industry-based organisations are exactly the way to drive the change in culture that we desperately need to see in the construction sector. What we saw the other night on 60 Minutes in terms of violence towards women was appalling. It shouldn't be tolerated on any work site in any industry–

SALLY SARA: So, just to clarify, was the government aware that the CFMEU was part of this group of organisations which were together in this fund?

MURRAY WATT: Yes, we were advised in approving these grants around all of the partners who were part of it. That includes the CFMEU, the Plumbing Union, but also some of Australia's major construction companies, Multiplex, Hutchinsons Builders, Hickory Construction Group. As I say, Our Watch are part of it. So I think it's a good thing to be bringing together unions, employers, domestic violence organisations to work on this shared challenge about making construction a safer environment for women to work in. That's got to be a good thing.

SALLY SARA: Murray Watt, we'll need to leave it there. Thank you for your time this morning.

MURRAY WATT: No worries. Sally.