Interview with Ron Wilson – 2SM Breakfast
RON WILSON, HOST: As clothing retailer Mosaic Brands Group closes its doors, the Federal Government has intervened to grant early access to the Fair Entitlements Guarantee for impacted workers. Some employees of Millers, Noni B and Autograph and the others will meet with Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Murray Watt, in Adelaide today after being granted immediate certainty to their entitlements. After a drawn‑out closure process, the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations has also established a transition support network to help affected workers find new employment opportunities.
Minister Murray Watt is on the line to us right now. Minister, good morning.
MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: G'day Ron, good to talk to you again.
RON WILSON: Yeah, my pleasure, thank you. Why has the Albanese Government decided to fast‑track access to the Fair Entitlements Guarantee for the workers affected by the Mosaic Brands Group?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, well, Ron, a lot of people probably wouldn't know, but the Federal Government does have a scheme called the Fair Entitlements Guarantee, and that's basically a last resort way of ensuring that employees get their entitlements paid out when the company they work for goes broke. Ordinarily, in that situation, we'd go through a liquidation process of a company, and the employees would have to stand in the queue with all sorts of other creditors to be paid out any leave or pay or other entitlements that they're owed. But in these sorts of situations, we do have the capacity to step in and pay at least some of the entitlements of those employees, which we would then recoup later on in the liquidation process. Basically, my view was that this was a special case. This company that's gone broke, the Mosaic Group, as you say, it used to operate and still operates some stores, like Millers, Noni B, Rivers, Katies ‑‑
RON WILSON: Yeah, there's about eight of them all together, isn't there?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, that's right, and all up they had about nearly 3,000 employees who are owed about $25 million in unpaid wages, unpaid leave, redundancy pay, things like that, and basically if we just stood back and let the normal system operate, they could be waiting a very long time to see any of those entitlements paid, if they get anything at all, and through fast-tracking these entitlements, we'll make sure that these workers get at least some of what they're owed. You know, they're going through a lot of uncertainty at the moment, and I think the least we can do as a community and as a government is make sure they've got a bit of money in their pocket, which we can then recoup on behalf of taxpayers down the track.
RON WILSON: So how quickly will they get their entitlements?
MURRAY WATT: Well, ordinarily it can take sort of up to three to four months for these entitlements to come through this scheme, but we have been able to get them out even more quickly than that in some situations, and we're encouraging all workers from the Mosaic Group to get their applications in as quickly as they can. That will allow us to get moving straight away. And while that's still a little bit of time before people might get those entitlements, it's a huge amount quicker than what they'd get them if they just waited for the liquidation process. It could be very late this year before we see any money coming out of the liquidation, and we want to try and get money in people's pockets much more quickly than that.
RON WILSON: Have you got an exact number of the employees that will benefit from the early access?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. Well, our understanding is that there's about 2,800 employees all up. Some of them have already lost their jobs because of course, many of those stores have closed. But there's still around 300 stores operating, but unfortunately, the expectation is that there will come a point where those workers lose their jobs as well. So, all up we're talking about nearly 3,000 people, and you know, the workers in these stores, you know, it tends to be women, tends to be middle‑aged women, often with family and caring responsibilities, they're not highly‑paid people, many of them have worked there for a long time so they would have accrued a lot of entitlements.
RON WILSON: Yeah.
MURRAY WATT: You know, they've got mortgages to pay, you know, school fees to pay, all those sorts of things. So, as I say, this just hopefully gives people a bit more certainty that they're at least going to see some of the money that they're owed.
RON WILSON: You're also talking about a transition support network. How will that work?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. This is one of the things that our Federal Department of Employment kicks into gear when we do see these large corporate collapses. Obviously, a collapse of this size with this many workers that can have really big ripple effects right across communities, and it's not necessarily easy for such a large number of employees to find a job if they're sort of left to their own devices. So, we work very closely with state governments, local governments, local employers to help place people who've lost their jobs in these sorts of large corporate collapses, and I know we've got some of our staff from the department already working with these workers to try to get them back into other jobs as quickly as possible. I mean one upside, of course, is that with unemployment being so low at the moment, there are many employers, including in retail, who are looking for new workers, so what we're trying to do is to help people find new jobs as quickly as we can while also fast‑tracking this process for them to get their entitlements back.
RON WILSON: Do you have an estimate of how much money is involved?
MURRAY WATT: Our understanding is that it's close to $25 million in entitlements that are owed to these workers, and you know, again, it's a reasonably large number of workers, so it's not surprising that it's that much. But also, my understanding is that many of the people who work in these stores are very long‑serving employees, so they will have racked up, you know, lots of leave over the years, redundancy entitlements, all of those kind of things that obviously grow the longer you work for your boss. So that's, I think, one of the reasons why it's a fairly large amount. We're not able to always fast-track these sorts of entitlements. But as I say, I think this is a special case with so many employees affected, people who aren't paid that highly at the best of times with those sort of caring responsibilities, and you know, when people are going through tough times, I reckon their government should back them?
RON WILSON: Yeah. Look, I'm a little bit familiar with, especially fashion retail, I'm assuming that in the end taxpayers are going to have to be stuck with this bill, because I wouldn't expect Mosaic Brands to have a whole lot to sell up at the end of the day; they've rented shops, I'm sure they've rented warehouse space, so really there is not a whole lot to be cashed in at the end of the day.
MURRAY WATT: Certainly, our intention, Ron, is that we always try to recoup all or as much as possible of the funds that we pay out through this scheme through the liquidation process. It's probably a little too early to know exactly what assets remain in the group. You're right, you know, they would be renting their premises rather than owning their premises, but they will have stock, they will have other assets that can be sold as part of the liquidation process. So, we would certainly be hoping to recoup at least some of this money that taxpayers pay out. But as I say, I think as a community, you know, we owe it to look out for each other when they're going through these kind of tough times, and it's good that this scheme exists to help people out.
RON WILSON: Look, away from the Mosaic Brands issue just for the moment. Over recent weeks a number of the Senior Ministers, including yourself, Katy Gallagher, appear to become the attack dogs for the government as you go towards the election campaign, particularly targeting Peter Dutton. Have you been instructed by the party to get out there and attack him personally?
MURRAY WATT: No, I haven't been instructed by anyone to do this. But I'm quite willing to play a role in asking questions of someone who wants to be the Prime Minister of this country.
RON WILSON: Yep.
MURRAY WATT: I mean I've seen Peter Dutton carrying on this week and saying, "poor me" about this, I mean let's be serious, Peter Dutton has spent his entire career going after other people, including the Prime Minister, so, you know, I think people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones about this from Peter Dutton's perspective. But look, I think it is important that someone who's putting themselves forward to be the Prime Minister of the country needs to be transparent with the public, and the issue that we were pursuing this week was this very unusual share transaction that he engaged in in the middle of the GFC.
RON WILSON:16 years ago, though.
MURRAY WATT:It is a while ago, but it's never been explained why the day before the government at the time announced a massive bank bail‑out, Peter Dutton decided to buy shares in three of Australia's big banks when he's never bought banking shares before. It just looks very strange and very unusual.
RON WILSON:It could just be good timing, though.
MURRAY WATT:It could be good timing, it could be good timing, but it's a hell of a coincidence, if it was just without, you know, knowing anything. And he still hasn't answered the very basic questions about what he knew when, how much money he made out of this transaction, why he'd never decided to buy banking shares before, and all of a sudden decided to buy them the day before this banking bail‑out was announced.
RON WILSON: Yeah.
MURRAY WATT:But I think the other thing that's sort of come through from it, Ron, and I saw Peter Dutton did an interview on a different radio station yesterday, and he was asked about this, and he said, you know, bear in mind, the GFC, this was a time when people were losing their jobs, losing their homes, losing their marriages, and he was asked about this, and he said that this was about him seeing an investment opportunity. So, I think that gives you a bit of an insight as to what this guy's priorities are and makes you wonder if he really going to care for you if, in the middle of a GFC, what he's looking for is an investment opportunity for himself.
RON WILSON:I could use the same argument though with the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, buying a $4 million property up the coast here at a time ‑ in the middle of a housing crisis, and I mean he's sitting in The Lodge in Canberra. So, you know, the argument could probably go both ways there. The Prime Minister's leadership is one of those other things that's really come into the fore in people's minds and in discussion. Why isn't he out there doing that attack‑dog approach to Peter Dutton rather than leaving it to you and people like Katy Gallagher?
MURRAY WATT:Well, I have seen the Prime Minister asked questions about this this week, but I guess the Prime Minister's focus as the leader of the country is things like the Medicare announcement, we made this week. You know, his job is to make sure that we're looking after Australians, free GP appointments for nine out of 10 Australians as a result of the Prime Minister's announcement, you know, he's absolutely focused on delivering that cost‑of‑living relief that we have been doing to Australians - the energy bill relief, the cheaper medicines, the cheaper childcare, and now cheaper GP appointments, and I have to remind you, Ron, all of these things Peter Dutton voted against when he had an opportunity to in Parliament.
RON WILSON: Yeah.
MURRAY WATT: So, I guess the Prime Minister's focus is really trying to make sure that we do help Australians with those cost‑of‑living pressures, others of us can do other things as well.
RON WILSON: Minister, you're down in Adelaide today, of course you've had the Whyalla situation down there over recent weeks. Are you there for any specific announcements today or just campaigning?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, mainly focusing on this announcement regarding the retail workers getting their entitlements back, Ron. I had a couple of events down here yesterday as well with local employment service providers, so portfolio matters that I'm dealing with. But, yeah, today looking forward to meeting some of the workers at the Mosaic Group and in those retail stores, and hopefully they'll have just a little bit of good news to go along with the bad news they've been through recently.
RON WILSON: Well, that's right. It is good news for them, and I think we can all appreciate that you've done your best for them here. Thank you so much for coming on and speaking with us this morning. I appreciate it.
MURRAY WATT: No worries, Ron.
RON WILSON: Employment and Workplace Relations Minister, Murray Watt, talking to us from Adelaide there live.