Interview with Matthew Pantelis - FIVEAA Mornings

MATTHEW PANTELIS, HOST: Joining me into the studio this morning, Senator the Honourable Murray Watt who is the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Queensland‑based Senator. What are you doing in Adelaide? Good morning.
 
MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: G'day Matthew, great to be with the in the studio here. So I came down last night actually for the conference being held by the Australian Services Union, that's the union that represents a lot of people working in the community sector and also aviation, a whole range of different industries. It was a good chance to have a chat with them about some of the changes that we've been making to workplace laws, and you might have seen figures this week that show they're delivering higher for wages people, we're still seeing more jobs growth, which is terrific to see. So, yeah, it was a great chance, but it's always good to come back to Adelaide; I think it's my second time here in about a month.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: Okay. Wonderful. Now, jobs in South Australia, and nationally, the figures came out yesterday, largely stable in both, which, and I mean the Reserve Bank looks at this, of course, for interest rates. You would have preferred it to come down of course. You'd be happy with them being reasonably stable, as we head into the Christmas?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, that's right, Matthew. It is a tricky balance that we're trying to run here with our economic policy. We're obviously working really hard to bring inflation down, because that obviously does have a big bearing on interest rates, and you've probably seen that we've more than halved inflation since we came to office, and it's now down to within the Reserve Bank's target range, which is the first time in a few years. But at the same time, we don't we don't want to tank the economy, and we don't want to see thousands of people losing their jobs. So it was good to see this week the jobs figures, some modest growth, about 16,000 more jobs created around Australia, not as much as what we've seen in previous months, and I think it's no surprise that we're starting to see the labour market soften a little bit, but still seeing more jobs created.
 
And here in South Australia, what it works out to is that there's been about 50,000 new jobs created since we came to office, so that's a really great tribute to local employers and workers for making that happen. But also the wages data that we got this week was really encouraging, where again, despite the economy being pretty tight, we've got to the point where for a full 12 months in a row, we've seen Australians' wages increasing above inflation, and the good news is that here in South Australia, the percentage increases of wages are actually above the national level. So you're obviously doing something right down here.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: But that obviously drives inflation as well, doesn't it?
 
MURRAY WATT: Well, it doesn't seem to be working out that way. I guess traditionally that's the way things have gone. But what we're actually seeing at the moment is that we're seeing wages rise at a time that we are seeing inflation fall quite significantly, and that's what I'm saying about having to run that careful balance, because we don't want to overheat the economy in a way that drives up inflation, but equally, we don't want to tank it and we see lots of people lose their jobs. I guess where things are at the moment seems to mean that we've got the balance about right. I have no doubt that your listeners would like to see their interest rates fall, and as a mortgage holder, I'd like too as well. But, you know, some of those things are outside our control, but we're doing what we can.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: Okay. Moving forward, AUKUS, and we've had the Acting Prime Minister in fact in Adelaide this week announcing TAFE courses for AUKUS, and jobs moving. Now that's an exciting time here in South Australia, because no matter what happens under Donald Trump, at least the agreement is in place today and we are gearing up for that, which means more people being hired. Long‑term, the specialist skills, what do we do ‑ are we going to need them forever and a day, I imagine, these skills?
 
MURRAY WATT: That's right. I mean it is a really exciting development for South Australia, the AUKUS treaty, and the submarines that will be built here. You know, I think we can be very confident that there will be decades of jobs being created in South Australia based on this AUKUS arrangement. And you're right, I know there has been some commentary about Donald Trump's position on this, but we've seen there's quite a degree of bipartisan support for this treaty in the US now, which is terrific to see, and one of the major challenges we're going to have as a country is how we get the skilled labour needed to build these things. You know, of course Adelaide's got a terrific reputation as a shipbuilding centre and all sorts of naval equipment, but this is a really big task we're taking on and that's why we are investing so much more in skills development; the free TAFE courses that we've been providing is partly about that, but we know that we're going to need to do a lot more, but I think we can confident it will be here for a long time.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: Those skills, could we not use them in the nuclear industry and build plants in the future? I mean we're going to have to talk about this at some stage.
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. I guess the issue with nuclear, Matthew, from my perspective, is that, you know, any the experts you talk to will tell you that it's a very expensive way of producing new power, and even the nuclear reactors that Peter Dutton's talking about would actually only supply about 4 per cent of the power that the nation needs, and he still hasn't released what it's going to cost to actually do that, but you've got some experts saying that it will be up to $600 billion. If that is anywhere near right, what that means is that your average householder would be paying about $1,000 more on their electricity bill every year. So, I think, if nuclear was a cheaper form or a quicker form, you might be up for it, but it's expensive, it's slow, it won't be around till the 2040s.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: Okay. Interesting you picked 600 billion, because a report from Frontier Economics today says that's what the renewables grid is costing, 642 billion. No one is seeing power prices come down. I say this ad nauseam on the show. I can recall going to media conferences with John Olsen back in the late 90s, Mike Rann who followed him in the early 2000s and Rob Kerin in the middle for five minutes, all telling us these renewable projects they were launching would bring down our power prices. Well, yet to see that. They've only gone north, and no sign of that ever easing. So why not throw nuclear in the mix?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. Look, I've seen the reports today about this Frontier Economics report, and I'd be pretty interested to see, you know, how they've come up with that figure, because we've actually had the Australian Energy Market Operator who runs the energy grid in Australia cost the renewables plan, they've come up with a much smaller figure than what this economics firm has come up with. So, I'd be interested to see what they've based this on. The reality is that while we do know that power prices have been rising, and that's put a lot of pressure on households, I think you would have found that they would have been a lot more expensive without renewables coming in. I mean look at that beautiful day out there today, the sun's shining, it's free electricity once you build the infrastructure. Of course, there's a cost in building the structure to start with.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: We are paying for that though. And we'll pay for that forever and a day because it keeps rolling out and then you need to replace what you put in 20 years ago. It's never going to end.
 
MURRAY WATT: That's right, but the issue is, as I say, that even the organisation that runs our energy grid in Australia, the CSIRO, really reputable agencies have said over and over again that nuclear is the most expensive way for us to meet our power needs. It would be different if you were in Europe where you don't have that sunshine, you don't have the wind resources available, we do; we're lucky to have those resources, and that's the cheapest way of delivering it.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: The Special Minister for State, Don Farrell, South Australian Senator, colleague of yours in the Senate, who today has put out some information regarding electoral reform, and particularly in terms of donations, and this is ‑ well, we've done something similar in South Australia ‑ but ultimately it's a crackdown on ultra‑wealthy money being put into political parties to influence elections.
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, that's right, Matthew. This is a really good proposal, I think, from my good friend and your friend in South Australia, Don Farrell. He's been working on this for some time, and I think a lot of Australians have been really worried for a while about the increasing amount of money that is being thrown at elections in Australia. We don't want to go down the US path where effectively you've got to be a billionaire to be able to win an election, and we have seen in Australia already some extremely high‑wealth individuals, in some cases billionaires, throwing money effectively to buy seats.  That's not what the Australian democratic tradition is all about.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: And not to buy seats in the most recent election.
 
MURRAY WATT: Well, that's right, sometimes it doesn't work out for them. But, you know, I think all Australians have a concern about making sure that big money doesn't infiltrate our politics too much. You should be able to win elections on the power of your ideas, your policies, your candidates, rather than buying seats. So, what we've tried to do is come up with a balanced approach, which still allows for donations to be made, but at much more reasonable levels than what we've got at the moment.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: Is this targeting an individual, I mean, are you going to look at business, unions, in this? 
 
MURRAY WATT: Yep. All of these laws that we're proposing would apply right across the board, so there'd be basically donation caps of around the $600,000 a year from an individual, from a union, from a company, so it's all across the board, it would apply to all political parties and independents as well. A candidate would be limited to spending about $800,000 on a seat, which is still a fair amount of money. So, as I say, we're trying to get that balance right, not run foul of the Constitution, and you know, implied rights of political communication and things like that, but come up with something sensible that's transparent.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: 800,000 on a seat. If political parties are spending that, individuals who might want a stand don't have a show, do they; they really don't.
 
MURRAY WATT: Well, this is the issue, I guess, is that what we've seen of late is that it's not just the major political parties spending large amounts of money, but some independents as well. You know, of course we had some Teals elected at the recent election, we've had Clive Palmer putting a lot of money into his candidates as well, and what we've tried to do is come up with a system that applies equally, so doesn't matter what party you're from or whether you're an independent. I think your average person, if they were running as an independent, probably wouldn't be able to come up with $800,000.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: Yeah, that's my point, yeah.
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. But we are seeing increasingly some independents have those kinds of resources, and this is what we're trying to do is level the playing field, so that money, you know, you shouldn't be able to buy a seat, is what it comes down to. The other thing we're trying to do also is also make it a lot more transparent. At the moment you're able to make a donation of close to $17,000 to an Australian politician without anyone knowing about it, and we want to bring that down to $1,000 so that people have a much clearer idea of who's making donations, and also we want to make it much more quick that you find out who's donating to who. So they're some of the other things contained in this as well.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: All right. You've taken a bit of South Australia, the Premier here, policies of his in the last little while. Is this another one?
 
MURRAY WATT: I know that he has been very active on this front around public funding, and different states are doing different things, but you know, from everything I see from my home state of Queensland about Peter Malinauskas, he's pretty on the money with where the public are at. He led the charge obviously on the online social media stuff as well. So, yeah, look, I mean we've obviously listened to what he's had to say and done a lot more consultation as well.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: We talked about Trump a bit earlier. US tariffs, what effects on jobs here in Australia, as Employment Minister, are you concerned about a Trump economy?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, look, I mean we'll obviously deal very positively with the new Trump administration and Australia, you know, we've been long‑term allies and friends of the US regardless of political, you know, who's been in power. We do have some concerns about what President Trump has talked about in terms of increasing tariffs, particularly because Australia is such an export‑dominated economy. In my previous role in agriculture, I got to know a lot of your wine makers here in South Australia who obviously suffered terribly from the tariffs that China imposed on our wines, and that would be the risk that we would see if we see those kind of tariffs brought in by the US. It's a big customer of ours for agriculture products, minerals, all sorts of other things as well, and Australia has always been at the forefront of arguing for freer trade, because we are an export‑related economy. We want to be able to get our things into other places. Equally, we're happy to take other countries' imports if they can do it more efficiently. So, we'll keep working with this on the Trump administration and hopefully we can come to a sensible arrangement.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: Are you able to keep working with the Trump administration through Kevin Rudd?
 
MURRAY WATT: I think we can, yeah. Kevin's copped a lot of flak over the last week or so, he's got thick skin, he's used to it. But I think if you're being fair about it, he's done a really good job as our Ambassador in the US. He's built very strong relationships not just with the Democrats side of politics, but with the Republicans. I know a number of my senior colleagues have been in the US over the last few months and Kevin has got them in the door to meet with people who are now part of the Trump administration, and Kevin played a very big role in getting the AUKUS deal across the line by lobbying Republicans to come on board. You know, people say different things over the times, and if you dug deeply enough, you'd find people on all sorts of sides of politics who've said things about Donald Trump. I reckon what matters is what they can actually get done in the job, and I think Kevin's really done well.
 
MATTHEW PANTELIS: All right. Murray Watt, really appreciate your time today. Thanks for dropping by.
 
MURRAY WATT: No worries, Matthew, good to talk.