Interview with Greg Jennett - ABC Afternoon Briefing

E&OE Transcript

GREG JENNETT, HOST: There have been a few developments in the Senate this afternoon and probably throughout the day for workplace relations and employment. Minister Murray Watt, he's trying, of course, to wrangle the bill to put an administrator into the CFMEU. In the middle of all of that, Murray Watt, we're pleased to say, has been able to join us now for an update. Murray, welcome back to the program.

MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: Good to be here.
 
GREG JENNETT: There's been, as I understand it, a bit of a procedural setback around the time Afternoon Briefing was getting ready to come to air. In your bid to have this bill dealt with by the Senate tomorrow, where does it leave you?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yes. So, the fundamental point, Greg, is that we want to get this bill through the Senate this week. I think all Australians recognise that we need to take serious action around the construction division of the CFMEU. The range of allegations we've seen recently, organised crime, bikies and a range of other violent matters, in particular. What we did today was move a motion in the Senate trying to set a deadline of around midday tomorrow to pass this bill to get it through the Senate so that it could go to the House of Reps on Monday. Unfortunately, and very strangely, we saw the Coalition and the Greens vote together against that motion to prevent it being brought to a head. So, I guess it's really in their hands now as to how quickly we get this through.

GREG JENNETT: Thank you for the update. Why do you say, very strangely, does that voting pattern not accord with other understandings you've gleaned from your conversations today?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I think it's not all that common that you see the Coalition and the Greens vote together, and I would have thought that on something like this, they would agree that this is a matter of urgency. And I think in particular, I saw Michaelia Cash, the Shadow Minister, do media today where she said that she wanted to see this bill passed this week. She had an opportunity this afternoon in the Senate to lock that in, to make sure that we could timetable things, to make sure the bill was passed tomorrow and then decided to vote against it. And as for the Greens, I cannot understand why they are not prepared to take a stand against a union with the record that they have got and why they want to associate themselves with the likes of John Setka and other people like that.

GREG JENNETT: Of course, it could just be a procedural stance that they've adopted. I won't ask you to address that, but we will try and reconcile it with your own chats that you've held today. Let's start with Michaelia Cash, what did you agree to on her, I've got it here somewhere, 20 sets of suggestions for amendments.

MURRAY WATT: I did make the point to her that she needed to add a few extra things just to get to 20. Sounds like a big round number. Look, I've had a couple of very constructive discussions with Michaelia Cash today. As I say, she made clear to me that she agreed we need to get this bill passed today. What I pointed out to her was that there are a number of things on her list that are actually already addressed by the bill that we have introduced into parliament, and we've been able to clarify that for a number of things.

GREG JENNETT: So, you've already whittled that down from 20 to a lower number?

MURRAY WATT: That's right. I would say there's two or three things that we're working through. But I'd like to think that we can reach agreement on that so that we can pass this bill tomorrow. I've also met with the Greens this afternoon to listen to what their concerns are and we've undertaken to give that consideration as well.

GREG JENNETT: Can you enlighten us on that? They haven't put out a document, unlike Michaelia Cash.

MURRAY WATT: Look, we have agreed at their request to keep that confidential so that those discussions can go on. But what I would say is that in both the discussions with the Coalition and the Greens, the point I've made is, one, we want to get this bill through this week so that we can put in place the process to have an administrator appointed as quickly as possible. And secondly, we're not going to agree to anything that waters down this bill because we do need strong action.

GREG JENNETT: Ok, so notwithstanding that procedural vote today, it sounds like you still see a pathway towards that goal with one or other of those entities, right?

MURRAY WATT: That's right. I mean, the way, as you know, the way the Senate works is that the government has always has two options, that we get the numbers via the Coalition or we get the numbers via the Greens, plus some of the crossbench. And I'm going to be keeping the pressure on as long as it takes to get this bill done and done tomorrow in the Senate. I intend to have further discussions with both of those parties this evening to see if we can reach agreement. I think it's in everyone's interest to get this bill done as quickly as possible, and I don't think the Coalition or Greens want to be held responsible for holding it up any longer.

GREG JENNETT: All right, thank you for those updates. As you know, many parties, organisations and industry players are watching closely what happens with this bill. Now, assuming it does go through, just clarify for us its coverage by the administrator. Is it all state branches?

MURRAY WATT: Yes, it is. So, the way we have designed this legislation, it would apply to all state and territory branches of the construction division of the CFMEU. It's not about applying the same powers for other unions, and it's not even about applying the same powers for other divisions of the CFMEU. This is a very targeted effort, focusing on where the problems are, being the construction division of the CFMEU. There is power under the legislation for the administrator to recommend that particular branches be released from administration at an earlier period of time if they essentially get a clean bill of health. But the idea is at the outset to make sure the administrator has powers across the entire construction division right across the country.

GREG JENNETT: Ok. Now, I know this isn't strictly a question for you as Minister, but you are not without influence in the ALP itself. Because coverage will be national, what would happen to donations, or should happen to donations and fees given to the ALP, in your view, once that's extended?

MURRAY WATT: Well, you've probably seen that most state branches of the Labor Party have already taken a decision to suspend the affiliation of the CFMEU from the party and to refuse to take donations for the period of the administration. I've noticed some comments from the Western Australian Premier who has indicated that if we were to put the WA branch into administration, the same thing would happen there. So, we're well on track to make sure that there won't be any donations or affiliation of the CFMEU for the entire period of the administration. Can I just make one other quick point, Greg? The other thing we are giving consideration to here is making sure we recognise that some of the problems also involve employers. This is not an exercise just about going after unions. We need to clean up the industry more generally.

GREG JENNETT: How do you do that?

MURRAY WATT: Well, I think, for starters, I have seen some encouraging work by the AFP and state police in investigating and potentially charging some employers who have done the wrong thing here as well. And that's something we're giving some serious thought to as to what more we could do in that realm too.

GREG JENNETT: And look very briefly, and finally, Murray, a separate Senate inquiry that could look at all of those actors, what's your attitude on that?

MURRAY WATT: We don't support yet another inquiry into the CFMEU or the construction industry, and probably more importantly, nor do most of the employer groups in the construction industry. So, the Coalition is looking for support from employer groups to this, they're just not getting it.

GREG JENNETT: All right. Look, thank you so much for finding time on what I know is a busy job of work that you have at the moment.

MURRAY WATT: No worries.