Interview with Emma Rebellato - ABC News Breakfast

EMMA REBELLATO: The eyes of the world are on Australia after Parliament passed sweeping world‑first laws overnight banning children and teenagers from social media. The move means anyone under the age of 16 will be blocked from using TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat and Facebook from the end of next year.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND, HOST: The late vote capped off a frantic day in the Senate where the Government managed to ram through most of its legislative agenda on the final sitting day of the year, indeed quite possibly the final sitting day of this term.
 
We'll have reaction from Europe in just a moment but first let's bring in the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Murray Watt. Minister, good morning.
 
MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: G'day Michael, good to be with you.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND: Also I'd hate to be a Senator, what time did you finish up last night.
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah, it was about quarter past 11 when we got out of here last night, Michael, so our second late night this week, but we're raring to go, 'cause there's always things to do.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND: Yes. Now let's talk about the social media ban. It is getting lots of reaction across the world; everybody seems to be talking about it. Are you confident it will work?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yes, I am, Michael. And of course this was one of the really important bills that the Senate passed yesterday, whether it be to deliver cost‑of‑living relief, support for Australians, improve safety, build homes and all sorts of other things as well. And on this bill, I think it does respond to a really important concern that Australians have about the damage that social media is doing to kids, particularly in terms of their mental health.
 
The law obviously has 12 months now before it commences, so there is a bit of time for the social media companies to get to work on the implementation of it. We also have a trial underway around age assurance technologies to refine some of the ways that this law can be implemented. But I think the important step that is now being taken by the Parliament is to set that age limit and to give confidence to families, to kids themselves, that they will be protected from the kind of online harm that we see proliferating around the world.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND: Are you confident the social media companies, and I'm thinking in particular of X run by Elon Musk, will play ball?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yes, I am, Michael. I mean obviously we've seen some comments from Mr Musk and various other parties about this, but we did include in the legislation very significant penalties of up to $50 million if the social media companies don't play ball. I think they will take that seriously, but I also think that they've got an interest in preserving their reputation and their social licence.

I think as every day goes by the proof becomes clearer about the link between social media and the kind of content that is appearing on it and the mental health challenges that our kids increasingly face. So I think between those fines and social pressure we will see social media companies play ball, and of course if they don't, then we've got the ability to go after them.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND: On the mental health challenges, sure, there are no shortage of people in that space who will say "Great, it's fantastic, social media causes so much mental harm to a lot of teenagers", but we had others, as you'd be aware in the inquiries leading up to this legislation saying, “Hang on, yes, there are harms involved, but for a lot of teens social media is a form of connection for them, particularly those living in rural and regional Australia, and by ripping it away from them you could create more problems for them”. What do you say to those concerns?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. And this is one of the challenging balances that we've had to come up with with this legislation, because we do recognise that social media and online forms of communication do form a really important part of communication between many kids, especially, as you say, those who are isolated for one reason or another, and that's why we haven't banned every single platform, and we haven't banned messenger services, for example, whether that be Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp and other similar services.
 
We've also preserved the ability for kids to be able to access things like Kids Helpline and other sort of online resources that might assist them with their mental health challenges. But I think any reasonable observer would agree that the kind of content that kids can access on some of those other platforms is not at all helpful for their mental health and quite damaging.
 
As a community we've decided in the past to regulate the age limit for kids to access things like alcohol or cigarettes, and that's been prompted by health concerns as well, and this, I guess, is a modern form of responding to those growing health challenges in a different way.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND: Okay. Let's go back to the reason why you were up so late last night, those 32 bills pretty much rushed through Parliament. Murray Watt, is that really best practice?
 
MURRAY WATT: Well, of course, as the Government, we'd be very happy to see the Senate pass more of our bills every week we come to Canberra, but the reality is the Government doesn't have the numbers in the Senate and we always have to try to get either the Coalition or the Greens and the crossbench to vote for our legislation. Unfortunately this term we've seen a particularly obstructive Senate that hasn't been willing to pass the usual number of bills each sitting week. So it's no surprise that you do end up with a bit of a log jam at the end of the term.
 
I mean, I think anyone who's been around a while, like yourself, Michael, knows that the last day of the Parliament there's always quite a few bills that go through. This is a larger number than usual, but I'm really pleased that yesterday the Senate did work together with the Government to pass a bunch of legislation that is helping people with cost of living, building more homes and taking these safety measures.
 
So we've said before that what we're trying to do as a government is help Australians with their immediate challenges, in particular cost of living and housing, but also start building Australia's future, and you saw that with the legislation that we passed yesterday.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND: Yes. You've been at loggerheads with the Greens. All of a sudden though there was this great spirit of compromise between the Government and the Greens. Adam Bandt, the Greens Leader says Greens pressure works. Is he right?
 
MURRAY WATT: Well, I don't think so, Michael. I mean I know that the Greens are in massive damage control after the results of the Queensland and ACT elections, and they've clearly heard the message that the Australian people are pretty sick of them blocking progressive reform rather than working with the Government to actually get that done.
 
And I think the Greens, and for that matter the Opposition, who supported us on some other legislation, recognised that it wasn't going to be in their interests to go through the summer break trying to explain to people why they stopped more housing being built and why they stopped cost‑of‑living relief being provided, why they stopped online safety measures being taken. That's what this legislation was about, and I think they came to their senses and realised they needed to get this done.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND: Okay. Fast approaching the next election, the Prime Minister told Sarah Ferguson on 7.30 last night he fully expects Parliament to come back in February. He's having a lend of us, isn't he?
 
MURRAY WATT: No, I don't think so, Michael. I mean we've obviously still got a range of things that we want to get done as a government. We're always coming up with new ideas to assist Australians deal with those cost‑of‑living pressures.
 
In my space in Employment and Workplace Relations, we're always trying to think about things that can continue to get wages moving in the way that they have over the course of this term. We want to keep making sure that we bring inflation down, that we keep creating new jobs. So there will always be things to be done in the Parliament.
 
Obviously we didn't manage to get every single bill through this week, and in particular our electoral reform legislation to try to take big money out of politics, that remains to be done, so it's certainly our intention to get back here in February next year, because we've got lots more to do.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND: Okay. Murray Watt, late night, minimal sleep. We really appreciate your stumping up for us this morning. Thank you.
 
MURRAY WATT: No worries, Michael.