Interview - ABC RN Breakfast with Patricia Karvelas

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: The Federal Government has today announced a review of one of the Government's major changes to Australia's industrial relations laws. Murray Watt is the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. Welcome back to Breakfast.
 
MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: G'day PK, good to be with you.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: We have to start on the biggest story in the world, and we were just talking about it, of course, here on Radio National Breakfast, those developments in Israel overnight. Are you at odds with the United States on your position on where this should go? You're calling for a ceasefire, but the United States has been providing Israel support. Where does the Australian Government stand?
 
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. I wouldn't put it that way, Patricia. I mean this is obviously an extremely dangerous escalation that we've seen overnight, and Australia unreservedly condemns Iran's actions in what it's done overnight.
 
But I think what we've seen in recent days is that not just Australia, but the global community generally, has been very clear in our calls for de-escalation in the region. You would have seen a few days ago, 21 countries from around the world including Australia, the US, the UK, the EU, and a number of other countries called for an immediate ceasefire in and around Lebanon. So, our position, I think, is actually consistent with those of like-minded countries in many parts of the world.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well, the United States is, however, backing the destruction of Hezbollah as a whole. Is that something that you support?
 
MURRAY WATT: Well, I'll leave it for the United States to express their position ‑‑
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: What's the Australian view?
 
MURRAY WATT: The Australian Government's position is that we need to see immediate de-escalation of the conflict in and around Lebanon, that's why we continue to call for a ceasefire.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: What does that look like though? What does that look like?
 
MURRAY WATT: Our preference, as it has been for some time, is for these matters around the Middle East to be resolved diplomatically. We have already seen far too many civilians killed in the conflict around Gaza. We're deeply concerned about the risk of more civilian deaths in and around Lebanon, and this needs an effort from the international community to bring this to an end, to have an immediate ceasefire, and Australia is very willing to play our part in getting to that point.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, what does it mean? Does Israel have a right to respond to this attack overnight?
 
MURRAY WATT: We certainly acknowledge that there have been hostilities inflicted on Israel for some time now, and this is a situation that we want to work with Israel and neighbouring countries to bring to an end. It's not in anyone's interests, whether it be Israel, or its neighbouring countries for this conflict to go on, to continue to see civilian deaths on both sides of the border, and we're determined to work with the international community to bring that to an end.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: What's Australia's position? Do you want Israel to temper its response to the Iranian attack overnight?
 
MURRAY WATT: We want to see hostilities end from all sides of this conflict. International Law applies to all countries. There's no doubting whatsoever that Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation, and it needs to be dealt with, as does Hamas. That's been something that our ministers and our government have been saying for some time, but we don't want to see Lebanese or Israeli civilians continue to pay the price of this conflict, and that's why we want to work with the international community to bring about a ceasefire and resolve these issues ‑‑
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, Israel should hold back in your view?
 
MURRAY WATT: Well, I'm not going to give free advice to Israel, but what ‑‑
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: The Australian Government, with respect, the Australian Government's response, we are a middle power, is part of the conversation, especially in our country. I'm just wondering, does the Australian Government believe that Israel should now hold back?
 
MURRAY WATT: I've said on a number of occasions now, Patricia, that our preference, like the international community, is to bring about a ceasefire, and that does involve all parties de-escalating rather than continuing to ramp up the hostilities. We support Israel and the entire region's security, especially in the face of the belligerence that we continue to see from Iran, but we need to end this dangerous cycle of violence, and that requires all parties to negotiate, to cease hostilities and to resolve these issues peacefully and diplomatically.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, what's the government's advice to Australians in Israel right now?
 
MURRAY WATT: Well, I'm not aware of any advice having been provided to Australians in Israel. Of course, it is a dangerous situation in the entire region, and people should obviously stay in close contact with relatives, but our embassies and any of the travel advice being provided by DFAT.
 
Certainly you would have seen that we've been expressing for some time, many months in fact, advice to Australians living in Lebanon that they should be getting out. There's continued efforts going on there to assist Australians on to flights to get out of Lebanon. I'm not aware of anything similar having happened in Israel at the moment, but of course we'll keep that very closely monitored.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay. You just mentioned Lebanon. We've seen some countries, including Germany and the UK announce chartered flights to help their citizens escape Lebanon. Will we see something similar?
 
MURRAY WATT: Again, that would be something that we'll consider as the situation goes forward, but in fact we assisted a number of Australians on to a flight on Monday night, we've secured flights on a flight that happened overnight just last night, and more for tomorrow as well. So, we are doing everything we possibly can to get Australians on to flights, and we're working with a number of international partners to do that.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Just one more question on the domestic part of all of this, there are planned protests over the weekend, and there's an attempt to stop the protest by authorities in New South Wales marking the October 7 anniversary. Do you think that's appropriate?
 
MURRAY WATT: Protest permits, you know, are always going to be a matter for State Governments and State police. But what I can make clear is that we don't think it's acceptable for anyone to celebrate the October 7 terrorist attack, whether that be on 7 October in a few days' time or any other date. It was an appalling terrorist incident, cost many lives, obviously there are still hostages being held as a result of that, and we all know the hostilities that have followed that event. So, there's no place, we think, for celebrating that terrorist attack, but when it comes to whether protests should go ahead or not, that's really a matter for State Governments to decide.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: What's your view? Do people have a right to protest on this day?
 
MURRAY WATT: As I say, I don't think that anyone should be celebrating the 7 October attack. It was an appalling international incident, the worst loss of Jewish lives since the Holocaust. I don't think that's a cause for anyone to celebrate.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: You've announced today ‑ just letting our listeners know I'm changing the topic to some domestic issues now; I think there's other important issues as well of course ‑ you've announced today a review of one of the government's major changes to Australia's industrial relations laws. Mining companies have been furious about the impact of the multi-employer bargaining story. Will they be taking part in the review?
 
MURRAY WATT: I imagine they will, Patricia, and we're keen to have as many people interested in the topic participate as we possibly can. When we passed the first tranche of industrial relations reform, the Secure Jobs Better Pay Act, we committed to undertake a review within two years, and of course we're now commencing that review.
 
We've appointed two eminent industrial relations and labour economics experts to head that review, and really the purpose of this review is to have a good look at how the amendments are working in practice, whether there are any unintended consequences that we should consider. So, it will be a good opportunity, whether it be for employer groups, unions, or anyone else with an interest to put forward their views.
 
You're right, we have had a lot of criticism from some mining companies about this, not all, but some mining companies; particularly their concern has focused on the risk that they see around multi‑employer bargaining, a concept that did exist in previous industrial relations legislation and we've revived. The only problem for the mining companies is that there has not yet been one multi‑employer bargain reached in the mining industry.
 
So, I do think that a lot of the criticism that we're seeing from different quarters, and particularly from the Coalition, is over blown, but what we have seen ‑‑
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: They're worried about it happening though.
 
MURRAY WATT: Sure. Yeah, I mean ‑ but you might remember when we passed this legislation Michaelia Cash was saying that it was going to close down Australia, and that hasn't happened. So, lots of people have got lots of things to say when you change the law.
 
What we do know is that the laws are resulting in higher wages for Australian workers at a time when they're experiencing cost‑of‑living pressures. We're seeing the gender pay gap close to the lowest level it ever has, and we're seeing increasing job security, and I think they're really important things for all Australians right now, especially at a time when they're struggling with cost‑of‑living pressures.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: The chief union body, the ACTU, wants your government to legislate to scrap junior pay rates for more than 500,000 workers aged 18 and older because they say these people, you know, are really getting unfair treatment. Are you willing to do it?
 
MURRAY WATT: What the ACTU have actually said is that depending on the result of a current case in front of the Fair Work Commission, that might be their position. We're not taking a position on that case. Basically, it's being run by the union that represent shop assistants in the Fair Work Commission, and we'll closely monitor that result.
 
There are many groups in the community, unions, employers and others, who've got lots of ideas about things that we should do in the IR space. We'll obviously consult with people in the run-up to the election, but I've already said that my priority as the new Minister is bedding down the very substantial reforms that we've already made that are delivering more secure jobs, better pay, more gender equality and safer workplaces, and I think that's a really good thing for all Australians.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Murray Watt, many thanks for joining us this morning.
 
MURRAY WATT: No worries, PK.