Doorstop - Parliament House
MURRAY WATT, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: Thanks very much for joining us here today at Parliament. As you can see standing behind me, I've got a very diverse bunch of people who've all got a very common interest in making sure that workers and employers in the transport industry enjoy good conditions, can profit from their enterprises, and to stop the race to the bottom when it comes to prices and wages that transport workers receive. I'm joined today by representatives from the Transport Workers’ Union, one of the peak employer groups in the transport industry - Peter Anderson from the Australian Road Transport Industrial Organisation, we've got Rosalina, a gig worker who will be able to talk to you about the benefits of some of the changes we've made to her and her colleagues, and of course many other MPs and supporters of the cause that we're here to back in today.
It's a bit over a year now since Labor fundamentally changed Australia's workplace laws to close loopholes that were driving down the pay and conditions of workers in the transport sector. The people in this sector, whether they be parcel delivery drivers, truckies, food delivery drivers, they work incredibly hard, and often in quite dangerous conditions. At times they've been driven to work extremely long hours, sometimes unsafe hours, and not necessarily taking home much money for all of their trouble, and I'm really pleased that as a result of Labor's changes to our workplace laws, that is beginning to change for transport workers, just as it's beginning to change for workers right across the economy.
Just this week we saw a review released, an independent review which looked at the impacts of the first wave of our workplace law reforms: the Secure Jobs Better Pay Act, and what that found was that after our changes had been made, we've seen wages starting to move up again for Australian workers, and remember, this is after 10 years of a Coalition Government that deliberately kept wages low and really drove down the standard of living for so many workers in our economy.
Now, there are really specific issues around the transport sector that needed action to be taken, and because of the way that many workers in this industry are engaged, they weren't benefitting from the usual minimum standards that employees get in other parts of the economy. So, we work very closely as a Government with both the Transport Workers’ Union representing workers and employer groups like Peter's to come up with a model that everyone could live with, that everyone could benefit from, and now we're starting to see some of the results with applications being made to the Fair Work Commission. The applications that are in place at the moment, we expect to deliver minimum standards, like minimum rates of pay, minimum conditions, the kind of things that many employees in other industries take for granted, but have never been available to some of the workers who are standing behind me here today, and we expect that will change once the Fair Work Commission makes its decision, and importantly, those things will change with the support of employer groups like the Australian Road Transport Industrial Organisation.
I think that's one of the really unique things about these changes, is that they have had tripartite support, they've had support from government, from unions and employer groups, because everyone can see that this is the way of the future in this industry, to protect workers, and also to make sure that businesses can survive and be profitable as well, and I really commend everyone, it doesn't matter what side of the equation they're from, in having come behind this as well.
Now, one of the other reasons these workers are here in Parliament this week is they're seeking answers, they're seeking answers from all parties and all politicians about whether the laws will remain in place after the election, and I can give an iron‑clad guarantee from the Labor Party that the laws we've changed will remain in place because they are starting to get wages moving again for workers in the transport sector and in other parts of our economy. But there's a big question mark about whether these laws will remain in place if Peter Dutton and the Coalition were to win the next election. We've already seen them vote against these laws when we put them through this Parliament, just like they've voted against every change we've made to workplace laws, and they're already on the record promising to unwind a number of the changes that we've made to workplace laws if they win the next election, which of course would drive workers' pay down. So, it's time for Peter Dutton and his team to come clean about whether they will change these laws that are protecting transport workers and also transport employers if they win the next election.
I might just briefly say before handing over to Michael Kaine from the union, it's not the only thing we need to see Peter Dutton and the Coalition come clean on. It is time for them to come clean on the costings for their taxpayer-funded long lunches policy. Now, over the last few days we've seen all sorts of different stories from members of the Opposition about whether visits to golf clubs, movie tickets, foods, strip clubs, it doesn't matter what it is, they've all got a different answer about what's going to be eligible, and they've all got a different answer for what this policy is going to cost. Labor is standing with workers. We've got Peter Dutton and his team standing to have workers shout their boss a long lunch with taxpayer funding, and they haven't even got the decency to tell us what this costs. It's time to come clean on IR policies, and it's time to come clean on the costings of their long lunches policy.
I'll hand over now to Michael Kaine from the Transport Workers’ Union, and then we've got a number of other speakers to introduce to you as well. Thanks very much.
MICHAEL KAINE, TRANSPORT WORKERS’ UNION NATIONAL SECRETARY: Thanks very much, Minister. Michael Kaine, National Secretary of the Transport Workers’ Union.
Well, in the very first week of the Albanese Government back in 2022, a group not dissimilar to the one behind me came down to Canberra to make a very important point, a critical point. That point was that 200 to 300 Australians die in truck crashes each year. The point we wanted to make as a group was that the gig economy had come into this country unchecked and made matters worse. 19 gig workers now we know have been slaughtered under our roads under immense, immense and improper workplace pressure.
Well, last year we were here again, as this Parliament through the Labor Party and key crossbenchers passed these laws. We're yet to see the Coalition be part of the team that you see behind us. The team behind us is made up of employer organisations, industry associations, gig workers, employees, independent contractor truckies, the union. It is a full, widespread industry coalition of support for change, and today we stand on the precipice of life‑saving change and road transport, including world‑first laws for gig workers that will provide them with rights. As from the 26th of February, no longer can these gig behemoths kick workers off their apps, off their Uber apps, off their Uber Eats apps at a whim on the basis of an algorithm, kicked off an app, not by a human, but by AI. It is literally by definition an inhuman system.
And on 26 February, deactivation rights, the right to challenge unfair, unjust deactivation comes into place for gig workers, and comes into place also for independent small business truckies who up to this point have been suffering under the burden of every day wondering whether their major retailer is just going to cut them out of play because they've found someone cheaper and less safe to do their work. Now they will have the right to challenge unfair sackings, and of course that's critical in being able to stand up for their rights into the future.
And on Friday, the first applications in the new system kick off for rights and minimum standards in road transport. There will be industry committees from right across the industry coming together on Friday looking at minimum standards orders for food delivery riders who've been some of the most exploited workers in the economy since 2015. There will be minimum standards being explored for parcel workers who are now being exploited under the Amazon model, where Amazon Flex allows people to download an app, take their family car, get it filled to the brim with boxes till they can't see out of their rear vision mirror, set off at very low rates of pay, no insurances, no protections, an exploitative model that's killing those workers and that's undercutting good businesses in road transport as well.
So, this is a moment in time. Today we stand here for that critical moment in time, laws about to kick off, laws about and rights about to click into place that will literally save lives on Australian roads. When you save lives on Australian roads of truckies and gig workers, of course you're saving lives of the community that they interface with every day on our roads as well.
So, we're here over these two days in unity and in unison calling on all Parliamentarians to back in these laws now and into the future. We have the promise of saving lives, of making the transport industry safe, sustainable, and viable into the future. We should take that up and we should not let politics get in the way.
I'm going to hand over now to Rosalina, a gig worker, to talk to you.
ROSALINA, GIG WORKER: Good morning everyone. My name's Rosalina. I've been in the gig economy since it started. There is no limits as to how low these platforms can pay drivers. There is nothing in place right now stopping them from paying the gig economy worker $10 an hour. Expenses keep on increasing, insurance, fuel, increasing dramatically, but earnings keep decreasing. We need protections in place. The protections that are coming in on the 26th are against unfair deactivation. This is going to make a huge difference to gig economy workers. Right now, gig workers are getting kicked off apps by AI. There are no protections in place for them. Sometimes a customer might make a fake complaint just to get a free trip, it might be genuine, it might not be genuine, but AI is currently making those decisions. We need rights. We need them as soon as possible.
This is just the beginning of improving the transparency for gig workers and bringing back dignity. We need dignity and respect, the basic rights that we have been asking for, for so long. This is the best hope that we've had in a long time. Thank you everyone.
PETER ANDERSON, AUSTRALIAN ROAD TRANSPORT INDUSTRIAL ORGANISATION NATIONAL SECRETARY: Peter Anderson, I'm the National Secretary of the Australian Road Transport Industrial Organisation, and we represent employers in the road transport industry.
This has been a long journey, this has been a long journey that we've had to face up to ensure that we get some equality and some fairness in the way we treat our people in the road transport industry. The road transport industry is labour intensive. We need people to touch and feel and deliver the freight that we all need every day. The hardest resource to manage is people, and we need to ensure that their lives are protected in every way to ensure that the businesses that they serve are sustainable and able to continue to grow, be productive and profitable.
What we have here today is a recognition, of course, of how Parliament really works. We've been able to thrash out between two opposite parties how we can best serve our industry, how we can best serve the people in our industry and keep the businesses sustainable. We've been able to then present that to the politicians to ensure that they understand the complexities of our industry and what we're really calling out for. We want to protect our people, we want our businesses to be sustainable, we want to ensure the economy of Australia remains stable and we're able to serve the needs and wants of the Australian people.
Parliament does work. We've been able to achieve a legislation which is innovative and it's the model that we believe could go around the world in terms of being able to protect the worker and businesses. And we applaud the process, we applaud the Parliamentary process, because it gives our industry the opportunity to take control of itself, to actually be able to work within itself to ensure that it is meeting the demands of its customers, its business practices and those people that serve to ensure that those practices endure.
We're very proud to be able to work side by side with the Transport Workers Union and all the other bodies that have come together. It is a very unusual model; a model we hope will progress and transcend into other industries. Keeping in mind that we have an industry that's been in trouble, as Michael said before, the hundreds of deaths that we endure every day, every year are not felt in other industries. Driving a truck is one of the most dangerous industries in Australia. We need to ensure that we look after the people that do the work that keep the goods moving.
We're very grateful for the opportunity to be able to direct our industrial relations towards making sure that people are looked after in the workplace. Thank you.
TONY SHELDON, SENATOR FOR NEW SOUTH WALES: Tony Sheldon, Senator from New South Wales and Chair of the Employment and Education Committee in the Senate. I've been involved in this industry for 35 years both as a worker, as a union official and now as a politician.
Today is an incredibly important day because over those 35 years I've spoken to so many families that have lost their loved ones in trucking incidents across the roads and highways of this country. You know, mums and dads, brothers and sisters, sons and daughters who are no longer with us because of this pressure of the race to the bottom. This law makes a difference and an opportunity for all industry to come together and save lives. To see small, large, and medium businesses coming together to say there's a solution for all drivers and all industry, by making those big clients, those big retailers and big manufacturers and miners held to account to make sure there's proper arrangements, proper payments and proper safety arrangements right across industry means literally hundreds of thousands of gig workers will now have basic rights. This will save lives, and I mean one less phone call to someone who's lost their life and a parent or a loved one that's left there to pull the pieces together.
During this campaign we've seen in this legislation, the Opposition have failed to turn around and support this important legislation to date. What we've seen is the Opposition turning around, rather than supporting small business and businesses thriving in the transport industry and end this killer race to the bottom, they've voted for algorithms to turn around and have the right to sack somebody rather than have a human content about life and justice. We've seen the Opposition vote for algorithms as a future for all workplaces and the transport industry rather than human decency on how we deal with fellow people that are doing a hard and tough job in a very dangerous industry.
All we've seen from this Opposition is an announcement, rather than supporting small and medium sized businesses, is to turn around and say to the $20,000 Gina Rinehart fun pack for the next party. Well, how about you really support small business and call out and support this legislation, these people behind me that represent so many micro businesses, small businesses and larger business that are working together to make this country fairer, more decent and to stop having an algorithm future that turbo charges a race to the bottom that is killing people.
Dutton, there's a real opportunity to do the right thing here and not just turn around and give a $20,000 Gina Rinehart fun party pack but turn around and support real small business here and make a real difference.
GLENN STERLE, SENATOR FOR WESTERN AUSTRALIA: Thank you very much. The speakers before me, all magnificent. This has been a 20‑year journey, this isn't just something that's been happening in the last couple of months.
I want to congratulate the Transport Workers’ Union, but I want to also congratulate the employer bodies, and people like Peter Anderson and co behind me, and Glyn, Glyn Castanelli from the National Road Freighters Association. All of the transport entities stuck together on this to get this reform. I was born into this industry, and I'm not going to tell you it was 65 years ago, because I'd give up my age, and I still drive trucks, and I'm three generations of truckies in my family, and I'll be driving trucks long after I leave here.
But what we are facing here now come Friday, the fine work of the Road Transport Advisory Group that's been announced. Murray, thank you very much for previously through Minister Burke and the good work that you've been doing, where finally the road transport industry has its own voice, finally, after all these years we've been respected, and I thank the Albanese Labor Government for implementing this. I thank the crossbenchers that supported this.
And I will never ever thank the Opposition for joining hands for the $24 million scare campaign to do everything they can to suppress transport safety, transport viability and road safety for our transport operators and other road users. You have done an absolute disservice to this nation, and it's only a Labor Government that can do this, and I sincerely thank you, Murray, and I sincerely thank the Minister and the Prime Minister.
And what a day, I can't wait for Friday, Peter. I'm going to be watching over you and Richie, Richie Olsen, I can't wait to see the great work that you're going to do for our industry. Thank you very much.
JOURNALIST: Minister, just an adjacent question, if you will. The former Qantas executive looks to be the leading candidate to lead Virgin, but he was heavily implicated in the outsourcing of workers there illegally. What concerns do you have about him leading Virgin, if any?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. Well, obviously it's a matter for Virgin who they choose as their CEO, but I think most Australians would like to see Virgin choose a CEO that has a demonstrated record of putting their workers and the public first. You know, the aviation industry has been through a lot over recent years, and I can tell you the workers in the aviation industry have been through an awful lot in recent years. It took the Transport Workers’ Union with the support of the then Albanese Opposition to stand up to Qantas about the way it illegally sacked its workforce during the pandemic and did a range of other things to hurt its workforce. So, I would certainly hope and expect that Virgin would think about that when it comes to its choice of CEO. I know Michael Kaine's got some views on this, he might like to add to it.
MICHAEL KAINE: Look, this potential choice of CEO is important. Aviation is an industry that is in crisis. We have just released a survey that shows that nearly half of the workforce say that they have been under pressure when they're performing their job, that is deadly safety pressure when they're performing their job. We've got 90 per cent of the workforce that want to stay in aviation, 70 per cent of the workforce who say they just simply can't afford to stay in aviation because jobs have been decimated. How were jobs decimated in aviation? They were decimated by the regime, the brutal regime of Alan Joyce. Before Alan Joyce arrived at Qantas workers were engaged by the airlines in full‑time positions, they had good job security, they were jobs for life. Alan Joyce scattered the workforce to the four winds, threw them into multiple companies, pitted those companies in competition with each other and sat back and laughed as he screwed and screwed the price, which meant workers' terms and conditions went through the floor. At the same time of course service standards went through the floor, and part of that has been this person that is potentially up for grabs at Virgin now. That's not the aviation sector that we want to see.
JOURNALIST: Minister, China has said that it's going to retaliate against US tariffs. How concerned is the Government that it's increasingly likely that the Australian economy is going to get caught in the cross‑fire?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. Well, we're obviously monitoring this with a high degree of concern. Australia arguably more than any other country in the world benefits from free and open trade. We have very low tariffs ourselves, we've opened up our economy to the world, and Australia has done very well from that. Nearly one in four Australian jobs depends on trade, and we want to make sure that countries right around the world don't put in place new impediments to that trade. So, you know, we're approaching this calmly, but we're obviously taking up this issue with other countries, and we'd certainly be hopeful that these issues can be resolved very quickly.
JOURNALIST: Just another one on IR, if you will. You talk about the question mark that workers have over whether the Coalition will repeal laws that you've put in place, but I think business also have questions about any potential IR changes should you win another term in government. So, will you promise to tell voters ahead of the election on any IR changes you hope to make in the next term?
MURRAY WATT: Yeah. I mean we've obviously been doing some work in recent months about what we will take to the next election on industrial relations, as with every other policy area. We'll be making those announcements before the election, so people haven't got too long to wait now.
What I can say is that our platform going into the election will be based on making sure that we see wages continue to grow in this country and not go backwards, and that's a very big contrast to the Opposition, who not only kept wages low when they were last in government, not only voted against every change we made to workplace laws which have got wages moving again, but now they've already promised to start unwinding some of those laws. They've already said that they'd remove the protections we put in place for casual workers, making it easier for people to become permanent. They've already said they'll scrap the ‘right to disconnect’, which means that people can be forced to work unpaid overtime. They've opened the door to changing the definition of small business in a way that would weaken unfair dismissal protections. They've opened the door to getting rid of our Same Job Same Pay laws and a range of other changes, and the net result of all of that would be that people's pay would go backwards at the very time that they need more money in their pockets, not less.
So, I think there's going to be a very clear choice at the next election on IR, a Labor Government that has changed the law in a way that has got wages moving again, or a Peter Dutton‑led Coalition who has a record of cutting pay and is promising to do it again.