Interview with Patricia Karvelas, ABC Afternoon Briefing

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST:    The centrepiece of the Government's industrial relations announcements today at the national conference is an announcement of a Fair Work Court. Yes, a new court. The court will be headed by expert judges in consultation with the Fair Work Commission to resolve workers' disputes faster. For more on all of that, I spoke to the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Amanda Rishworth, a short time ago. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Minister, welcome to Afternoon Briefing. 

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS:    Great to be with you. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Why do we need a Fair Work Court? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    So, at the moment, there's many issues that are dealt with the Fair Work Commission, but there's a number where they need to go, for a range of reasons, to the Federal Court. Now, the Federal Court processes are very lengthy, and there's been many advocates that have said that they may not have the expertise to deal with specific workplace laws. We've also seen an increase of a number of matters going to both the Federal Court and Federal Circuit Court. And so, we certainly believe that we want to see a more efficient, effective way to deliver justice for workers, and that is what the establishment of the Fair Work Court is. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    You didn't take this to an election. Will you take it to the next election before actually forming it? Do you have a mandate for it? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I think when you're in government, you do need to respond to issues that are arising. When we've seen a number of workers, for example, for relatively small underpayments have to wait two years for justice, we need to do something about it. And that's what we're doing. And I think, quite frankly, this shouldn’t be a controversial issue. This is about more effective, fair, and efficient justice for workers but also employers. Employers don't want to be waiting around two years to find out whether or not they've underpaid someone or enforced that underpayment as just one example. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    But the employers actually hate it. ACCI’s put out a statement saying that it's basically going to increase costs, that it's a big problem. Isn't this something just the unions want? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I can't comment on behalf of ACCI, but I can imagine that small business would like an effective, efficient way rather than having to go to the Federal Court. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Have they asked for it, though? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, certainly, we've heard from a range of sources, including some small businesses themselves that are frustrated with the process. But I think having a court that has the expertise to deal with these issues is the right thing. Now, we will, of course, go through a process of consultation around the details, the matters, how it will operate. We will, of course, engage with business representatives. I’m quite surprised that already business groups are ruling this out because we will work through the detail with them. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Well, they think it's increased bureaucracy, huge costs. How much will it cost to establish a court like this?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, of course, by ensuring that issues are able to be resolved at a Fair Work Court as opposed to the Federal Court is changing where those issues are dealt with and the expertise. My focus though is on effective, easy process for workers and employers to navigate the legal system. At the moment, it's very disjointed. You may have an issue in the Fair Work Commission that then has to go to a completely different jurisdiction being the Federal Court. We're hoping to be able to through this process, and we'll do it with consultation, better align the work the Commission does, better integrate it, and have a collaboration between the two jurisdictions so that it is a much easier process for people to navigate rather than it be a disjointed justice system. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    And how quickly will this court be formed to actually deal with cases? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, we want to ensure that we are able to stand this up as quickly as possible, but there is work to be done. There's consultation to be undertaken, no doubt legislation, and so we will continue to work through that. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Time frame-wise, when can you imagine it seeing its first case?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, I don't want to put a time frame on it because it will involve a lot of work, but we're very hopeful to get this up and running as quickly as possible. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    I want to move to a couple of other issues. On AI, the national conference has agreed to a Fair AI Taskforce to give workers a greater say. Might that be about actually changing industrial relations laws for more consultation on AI? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    No. I would not suggest that this group would do that. What this group is about is making sure there's a conversation within the Labor Party, within the rank and file, within the community, with workers. It's a really important initiative and one that allows, if you have a look at the words of the motion, allows to build consensus for Labor's policy on AI. But it is a really important issue about what the workplace relations laws govern in the platform but, also importantly, in the workplace relations laws. And indeed, I already convene a tripartite group of unions, along with employers and government, to actually work out how we best- look at best practice of AI adoption in the workplace. We know if there isn't trust with workers, if workers are not consulted or indeed brought along on the journey, you won't get the best outcomes when it comes to AI adoption. So it's really important. We're working through those. We are dealing with issues, as I said, like trust along with capability. We'll continue to work through those issues. Obviously, it's a dynamic space. So adoption changes. We obviously need to continue to monitor, make sure our laws are fit for purpose, but that's what our group does. And the work done by Fair AI will be able to complement that and support our work. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Superannuation for under-18s is another proposal that this conference has adopted. Does that mean you're going to go forward and put that in? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, obviously any final matters about what we take forward by government is a matter for the Cabinet. There are really important policy proposals put up at this conference, and we know that some of them take time to deliver. When it comes to any specific proposal, that is a matter for the government and for the Cabinet, and we’ll work through-

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Okay, but there's obviously pressure now on the government, you’d have to agree after the conference, for super for under-18? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:   Well, the platform's a really important document. It's a really important guiding document of our party. But the ultimate decision of implementation in a Labor government is obviously by the Cabinet and the government. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Pauline Hanson has been a big feature of this conference. I asked Peter Malinauskas, is One Nation now your main competitor?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I don't think it's One Nation or the Liberals. What's really clear is the Liberals and One Nation need each other. In fact, they're already in a coalition together. Neither of them can form government, if you add in the National Party as well. None of them can form government without each other. So, to be honest, who our opponents are, those that are fighting against our agenda of better outcomes for working people, those people that are fighting against Medicare, those people that are fighting against the positive change that we are bringing in. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Pauline Hanson is quoted today from a podcast she's spoken on called Broken Fathers. In that podcast, she attacks paid family and DV leave as a holiday. She also says police are spending too much time on domestic violence. What's your response?  

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    First, I would say I'm pretty shocked that someone would consider family and domestic violence leave a holiday. As I've spoken to those that have used family and domestic violence leave, it has been so critical to ensuring that they don't have to choose between their job and their safety. I would never want to be in that type of circumstance, but we know many women are. And that is where family and domestic violence leave plays such an important role, to perhaps make a report to police, leave a home that is violent, to get the support and counselling someone needs. This is such a critical reform that was being brought in and, as I said, being used very responsibly by people and indeed saving lives. So, I am incredibly upset and disappointed about that attitude to family and domestic- 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    You were also previously a minister in this space, on women- domestic violence and ending violence against women. How about a comment that police are spending too much time and they should be dealing with more serious crime? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, I would say that police need to deal with crime, and domestic and family violence does take up time. And if someone's life is at risk, for whatever reason, police should respond. Of course, we want to see investment, as we've done as a government, in investing in prevention. But the role of police is to keep people safe. It's an old way of thinking to suggest, once you go into a home, that anything can happen there. Violence can just happen there, and it's no one else's business. This is a serious issue. Police have a role. I know that a lot of police have said they want further training and support to help them deal with it. That, of course, is an important conversation. But there is a role for all of us when it comes to dealing with family and domestic violence.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Just on gambling reform, a lot of working Australians are affected by gambling abuse, and the sort of scourge of gambling is very hurtful, of course, to many families. Should there be a gambling regulator? Lots of your rank and file want one.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, firstly I would say our government when it comes to online gambling harm, which is where we have responsibility for, have taken the most amount of action. Things like banning credit cards to be used for gambling-

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    That's what you've already done. They want you to go further there. 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    And we have got a big package of reforms on the table. Limiting the connection between sport and gambling advertising as one example. Limiting the exposure of people when it comes to gambling advertising. There's a number of measures that we are taking. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Do you accept, though, that the conference, a lot of people here, want you to go further? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    I accept that there is a range of views out there. What I'm saying is the action our government's taken has been significant – the action we've taken, the action we're proposing to take. And I think people can be very proud of the Labor government for the action we've taken on when many others haven't. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Thank you so much, Minister.