Interview with Nikolai Beilharz, ABC Adelaide Drive

NIKOLAI BEILHARZ, HOST:    Well, the Federal Government has proposed some pretty significant changes to Australia's Employment Services system to try and make them more responsive, effective and dignified. It's expected that a million job seekers will be affected. To find out more about that we're joined by Amanda Rishworth, the Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, who's here in Adelaide speaking about this today. Minister, thank you for your time.

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS:    Great to be with you. 

NIKOLAI BEILHARZ:    Before we get to the specifics of what you're doing in Adelaide today, can you just give us the overview of why there is a feeling that change and reform is needed in the employment/unemployment space? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Yeah. Look, we as the Commonwealth spend about $2 billion a year on Employment Services, so a lot of people would know as your Workforce Australia - it's been called other things in the past, jobactive. And what we've really seen is, while it works for some people it actually does not work for everyone supporting them into a job. And what we know is that a very large percentage, close to 20 per cent, are often put on the too- they're put often in what is known as the too hard basket or pass so they're not getting the support to get a job.

We know, at the same time, there's businesses crying out for workers and saying, how do we fix this problem? And so this is a really big problem that we've identified that we have a very diverse group of job seekers, but the system itself is a one-size-fits-all and doesn't actually respond to their needs well, so we're trying to change it for that reason. 

NIKOLAI BEILHARZ:    And does a lot of that have to centre around that idea of mutual obligations - things like the amount of jobs that you have to apply for or the training that you can do? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well firstly, it is around what we incentivise service providers to do, so partly the service providers get different types of payments and partly the problem is that there's really a one-size-fits-all payment model so that means you get a one-size-fits-all service. But it also is related to mutual obligations. If you're pretty close to the labour market and it is right that you put in job applications. But if you're a long way from the labour market with a lot of barriers, applying for jobs that you're not suitable for is just annoying for employers and, you know, it doesn't actually make people feel like they're getting closer. So, it's a range of settings in the system that treat every job seeker the same, whether it's the service that they're provided or actually the incentives through mutual obligations. And we want to make them more calibrated to a person's circumstances. 

NIKOLAI BEILHARZ:    When you say someone is maybe a bit further away from gaining employment, can you give us an example of how that may play out? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Yeah. So there's a few examples. We often hear people taking a break - they may have worked for a long period of time and taking a break when they're a bit older to care for someone they love or for health reasons. Often they find it very hard with that gap in employment to get back into work. Other people may have just experienced, like, their parents may not have worked, their grandparents may not have worked so they come what people say is, you know, long-term, a generational unemployment background. So, there's a range of different people's experiences. Other people might, for example, have been working in a job for a very long time, find themselves retrenched very quickly and have a skills gap - so they've got that work experience, but they have a skills gap. So, everyone comes to it from a different perspective. And what we know is often there's been sort of busy work incentivised - apply for jobs or do this ticket or do this training - but not actually with what jobs are available in their local area, and what job do they want to do and let's take the steps towards achieving that job. 

NIKOLAI BEILHARZ:    So will it make it, overall, easier or harder for people to receive these payments? Because of course, perhaps unsurprisingly, already people on the text line are saying, well, is this going to make it easier for dole bludgers? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Yeah. Well, no, it's not. What it's going to do is more effectively get people into work. So, if you're really close to the labour market, what are the things that actually will help you get into work? And that is going to be applying for jobs. If you're someone that needs to skill up and get training and take steps, there's no point in trying to apply for jobs you're not going to get. It's about actually engaging in that training, taking those steps to get that job and then, when they're finished that training, actually applying for jobs. For other people, it may be about doing work experience, It may be not. Actually, there's a lot of skills they're missing so their first opportunity to experience work may actually not be full paid employment but actually going and volunteering or doing work experience to give them the work-like experience. That is much more effective and efficient as a pathway to a job. So, there's no watering down in terms of the expectation that people do engage with mutual obligations. But what we want to see is actually a pathway for a job. When you've got 20 per cent who have been in the system for five years or more, something isn't working. 

NIKOLAI BEILHARZ:    I mentioned you were here in Adelaide today. How does all of this tie in with what you've been doing today? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, a few weeks ago I outlined the framework for reform. But obviously there is a lot of detail we need to fill in, like what is the right settings to support employers engaged? What are the right settings for funding for the different types of services we want to see? And what are the right settings for mutual obligations? So, we are in a period of getting- consulting on the more- finer detail. So, I went out to Northern Adelaide today because just under 50 per cent of the Workforce Australia caseload is out in Northern Adelaide. So, I really wanted to engage and speak with service providers, but also those that- social enterprises, those others that work in the system. And we had a really good conversation to get feedback and get- consult on the finer detail of what we're going to be putting forward in the future. 

NIKOLAI BEILHARZ:    What did you hear? Were there particular concerns raised about what you've proposed? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    No. There was a lot of encouragement. But really, some of those finer details were, what actually can we do to support employers, as one example. So at the moment, a lot of employers disengage with the system. So there were some really good examples of things such as mentoring - what's called post-placement, so after someone's put into a job, making sure that there's really good support after they've been placed to make sure that job doesn't come off the rails. So, that was one thing that both employers suggested but others also suggested. Also, taking a much more person-centric approach and actually recognising that there might be vocational and non-vocational barriers, and actually ensuring that people are connected up with supports for their non-vocational barriers at the same time as working on their vocational barriers. So, there was a lot of really useful information. There were questions, for example, about how we get the triaging right. How do we get the assessment right in the first place to make sure the right supports are in place? So, these were all parts of the discussion which were really, really useful and helpful. 

NIKOLAI BEILHARZ:    Minister, thank you for your time. 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Thank you.