Interview with Natalie Barr - Channel Seven Sunrise

NATALIE BARR, HOST: The full cost of Australia's new state-of-the-art warships is under scrutiny, with predictions it could be as much as $20 billion. Australia is building 11 new ships from Japanese firm Mitsubishi, with the government only revealing that the cost of three will be $10 billion. But the price tag for the remaining eight ships is still in doubt, with the government declining to reveal the estimated total cost amid contract negotiations with Mitsubishi. For their take, let's bring in Workplace Relations Minister Amanda Rishworth and Nationals Senate leader Bridget McKenzie. Good morning to both of you. Amanda, so taxpayers are obviously paying for this fleet. Should we know even an estimated cost?

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: I would say that this investment is critical to our defence and our strategic long-term positioning for Australia. It is the best possible ship we can get to meet what are our strategic issues into the future. When it comes to costs, we've announced that over 10 years for our broad surface combat fleet that we will spend $55 billion. But, of course, what's really important in all of this is, as you've mentioned, we've announced the design we’ll go with, but there are contract negotiations at the moment, and it would be irresponsible for me to pre-empt them.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, so we've got three of them, are going to cost 10, and then we're going to build another eight, so if we're going to have 11, they're going to be at least three each. That's up to 33, and then you've got to revamp the Henderson base where they're going to be built. So we're at least 35 billion, aren't we? Roughly, ballpark?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, of course, the first three ships, as you've identified, will be built in Japan. And then, of course, we are going to build our capability here in Australia. This is a good, very important, long-term defence project, defence investment for our country and really critical to achieving our strategic objectives. This is the right investment for our country.

NATALIE BARR: Bridget, what do you think of the plan?

BRIDGET MCKENZIE, NATIONALS SENATE LEADER: Well, obviously, we welcome this decision to actually purchase 11 Mogami frigates from Mitsubishi, a shipbuilder in Japan that has a wealth of experience of delivering defence projects like this on time and on budget. I do appreciate the government's position that in a contractual arrangement like this, when you are building the same ship over and over again in two different countries, there will be a raft of different measures you might build into that contract over time. It will also strengthen our relationship with a key defence partner in Japan in our region at a critical time. A couple of the risks, though, and you mentioned one, is that there will be the classic defence changes to design over time. We want to minimise those. Mogami can be delivered as it is with the design specs that have been negotiated, but that will cost more and take longer if there are changes to the design over time. And the Henderson shipbuilding base here in Perth, where we are going to build the majority, that's the plan, and really skill up our workforce, hasn't even really been started. So there is a risk that a lot of the ships are going to be built in Japan rather than here in Henderson because we need to get Henderson actually up and going. So that's the challenge the Labor government's got now.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, moving on. Penny Wong has urged Israel to end the war in Gaza before the hostages held by Hamas have returned, saying it is the only way they can be saved. That is a shift from previous calls where the release of the hostages was seen as a priority before the conflict could end. Amanda, it feels like a big change in Australia's tone about the Middle East.

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, firstly, I would say that we need this conflict to end. We've called for an immediate ceasefire. I think it is not only Australia, though, putting this position forward. Of course, we have got 600 former Israeli defence security personnel saying that really the best way to get the hostages back is to end the conflict. So this has become very distressing across the board. We're seeing the huge human toll in Gaza. It really is time for this to end, for the hostages to be returned and for Palestinians, particularly in Gaza, to have access to food and water.

NATALIE BARR: Are you paving the way- is your government paving the way for Australians to accept that you're about to recognise an independent Palestinian state, Amanda?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, first, I would say that the Prime Minister has been really clear that to recognise a Palestinian state, it is when, not if. Of course, we've been very clear that Hamas should play no role. They are a terrorist organisation. But we do need a pathway to peace. Obviously, we continue to work with international partners on the way forward with that, as well as taking action to get aid into Gaza. But I think across the board, Australians are pretty distressed about what is happening in Gaza at the moment and do want this conflict to end.

NATALIE BARR: Jewish groups, of course, Bridget, say Hamas has rejected the ceasefire. They're refusing to release the hostages and that's their side of it, and there is no other side.

BRIDGET MCKENZIE: And it shouldn't just be Jewish Australians that think that, Nat. War is horrific and terrible, and civilians always pay the heaviest toll in any war across human history. That is a fact. That's why we all work so hard to keep peace. Israel did not start this war. Hamas started this war by their atrocities nearly two years ago. And it has been clear that the pathway to peace from day one is return the hostages to Israel, dead or alive, and for Hamas, a terrorist organisation, to lay down their weapons and surrender. That’s how wars end…

NATALIE BARR: And, Bridget, when you have got hundreds and hundreds of starving children, where we are now, what do we do?

BRIDGET MCKENZIE: Absolutely, Nat. Well, you don't give in to terrorists, Nat. That is the pathway to peace, is not giving in to the oppressors and giving in to the terrorists. It is horrific. Hamas needs to allow the aid to get where it's needed. And giving in to terrorists and oppressors is not the way to end wars. I think Penny's pulled the wrong lever on this.

NATALIE BARR: Okay, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much. We'll see you next week.