Interview with Karl Stefanovic - Channel Nine, Today Show

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Joining us is Amanda Rishworth, and Shadow Minister for Small Business Tim Wilson. Morning guys. Amanda, to you first up, how does this announcement change anything on the ground in Gaza?

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: Well, I think as the Prime Minister outlined yesterday, this is about joining the international momentum to really stop the cycle of violence. What we've seen, unfortunately, is just a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza. Obviously, hostages are still being held. 

We need to end the cycle of violence. And this step is being part of an international community, including with Canada, the UK, France, to build momentum for the meeting in September to end the cycle and create what everyone has hoped for, and that is a two-state solution.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Tim, is your answer to do nothing?

TIM WILSON, SHADOW MINISTER FOR SMALL BUSINESS: Not at all, but we can't have a situation where we have a Government that is bowing literally to the ambitions of what the terrorists always set out to do. On 7 October 2023, Hamas literally burned babies alive, hoping for exactly this type of outcome, where governments would bend and bow eventually to allow for this outcome. 

And unfortunately, we now have a Government that is weak and has ended up in a situation where they're essentially handing over the keys to the kingdom. I think what they've done is actually immoral.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Okay, Amanda, one of the caveats is that Hamas doesn't play a role. How can you possibly guarantee that?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, first I would say is this is our opportunity to create the state of Palestine in which Hamas is isolated and has no role. And so, of course, this is part of the work that will be done by the international community. 

We've been very clear, and we have had President Abbas to confirm that Hamas won't play a role along with elections and a range of other things including demilitarisation.

KARL STEFANOVIC: You can't guarantee it though is the problem.

AMANDA RISHWORTH: But we can't just sit on our hands.

KARL STEFANOVIC: What if they do get elected? What if they get elected? Will you revoke recognition?

TIM WILSON: Hamas was elected in the first place.

AMANDA RISHWORTH: We can’t sit on our hands and do nothing. That is what Tim is suggesting we do. There is a humanitarian catastrophe happening. This is our opportunity to do what has been a bipartisan position for a very long time. 

And the question for Tim is, does he want to leave that bipartisan position that has been a cornerstone of our foreign policy for a long time.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Can you just answer that one. Just quickly, Tim, I just want to get that on Amanda if I can.

TIM WILSON: Sure. Amanda knows full well.

KARL STEFANOVIC: So if Hamas is elected, is the deal off? Will you revoke recognition?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: There is a lot of work to be done to build a Palestinian – to work with the international community to build a Palestinian state. But we have got to get this work underway. 

What we're seeing unfold in Gaza is a humanitarian catastrophe. We need to build momentum to end this cycle of violence and that is what we are doing.

KARL STEFANOVIC: But would you revoke recognition if Hamas is elected?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: We are working across the international community. We have joined Canada, the UK, France to work towards this. There are conditions – there are things that we've put on the table that the Palestinian Authority has agreed to, like having no role for Hamas. 

This is our opportunity to sideline Hamas.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Tim, what's happening in Gaza is untenable. What are you going to do?

TIM WILSON: Well, it's absolutely untenable to see civilian attacks and civilian deaths on the Israeli and the Palestinian side. What we need is a long-term solution, but it doesn't start by kowtowing and bowing to exactly ambitions for terrorist organisation. But in addition to that, we can't just simply assume that everything's going to be peachy under the Palestinian Authority. 

I've literally sat in meetings in the West Bank with the Palestinian education minister where they have admitted that they name schools after terrorists who go and blow up Israelis. You need a long-term, stable solution, working particularly with the United States to make sure that we have a solution that recognises and respects Israel's right to exist as well as of course safety and security for Palestinians, and that’s not what we've got from this government.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Amanda, Amal Naser was just on the show. She's in the Palestine Action Group, as you know. She says you're just trying to appease internal factions. How do you respond?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: Our Government has been working with the international community on this issue. Minister Wong has been speaking about this for a very long time. Our Prime Minister has been speaking about this. 

We are part of an international effort. As I said, Canada, the UK, France.

KARL STEFANOVIC: So that's a no on internal factions?

AMANDA RISHWORTH: We are doing what we need to do as a country, working as part of an international community. That is what this is about. And I reject any assertion it's anything other than that.

KARL STEFANOVIC: Okay. Good to talk to you guys. Appreciate it, as always. Thank you.