Interview with Karl Stefanovic - Channel Nine, Today Show
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: Anti-Israel protestors in Melbourne are promoting a culture of lawlessness, according to the former head of the National Gallery of Victoria, Steve Vizard. His comments come after extremists who were targeting Jewish philanthropists sent the state’s premier arts institution into lockdown. Joining us to discuss, Labor’s Amanda Rishworth and independent senator David Pocock. Good morning guys, nice to see you this morning. David, first up, Steve Vizard says it could be stopped but isn’t, so the tension continues to bubble here.
DAVID POCOCK, INDEPENDENT SENATOR: Good morning, Karl. Yeah, I mean, I think people are getting desperate, looking at what’s coming out of Gaza, seeing the Government’s response, and I think in the lack of political leadership from the Government, people feel desperate and want to do things. I think we really have to weigh up the right to protest, with really trying to direct people into positive ways of actually building consensus around these issues and not targeting Jewish Australians.
KARL STEFANOVIC: So, are you a sympathiser with the protestors?
DAVID POCOCK: Maybe not the methods. I think the right to protest is really important for our democracy. But I would urge political leaders to step up and do more, so people don’t feel the need to do this, and for protestors to recognise that we’re Australians, first and foremost. Don’t target your fellow Australians.
KARL STEFANOVIC: Amanda, it’s very clear people aren’t listening to you. Protestors also plan to give the up yours to authorities and walk across the Harbour Bridge. They are spoiling for a fight and they don’t care about the law.
AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS: Firstly, I would say that there is a role for peaceful protest in this country, but it has to be done safely. It can’t be used to divide or pit people against one another, and I think they have to abide by the law. I would make the comment though that the Australian Government has been very clear when it comes to the humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza. We have been very clear that it is an absolute catastrophe. We have been clear that the war needs to stop now and there needs to be ceasefire. But it is really important that people are respectful and that the action we take brings people together and not sow disharmony and discord in Australia.
KARL STEFANOVIC: Let's move on, and the UN's climate chief is taking aim squarely at Australia's clean energy ambitions. Amanda, he reckons we're on track for, quote, megadroughts that will make fresh fruit and veg a once-a-year treat. Are you going to go even harder on clean energy?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: It's not surprising that climate change is real. What he's pointing out is that there are consequences as a result of climate change and our Government has been taking action. We've legislated a 2030 target. We are waiting for the expert advice to set our next targets. Obviously, we'll do that with expert advice and the national interest.
KARL STEFANOVIC: Do we need to be lectured by the UN on this?
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, what he is expressing is what most Australians know. We need to take action on climate change.
KARL STEFANOVIC: Aren’t you taking enough? I don’t know where your position is.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: The position is we’ve set a target for 2030. We will be setting a 2035 target.
KARL STEFANOVIC: He says that's not enough.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Well, we have committed to net zero by 2050. That is the action we're taking. We'll take it in the national interest. But let's be clear, there's a rump of Australian politics that doesn't even seem to believe in the science of climate change. That's the Liberal and National Party.
KARL STEFANOVIC: I'll get on to that right now. David, the Coalition's got a problem. They're heading in the other direction, as Amanda points out. Do you concede, though, that there are parts of Australia where net zero is terribly unpopular?
DAVID POCOCK: Yeah, I think it's total madness to see the path that the Coalition is taking on this. The Labor government, yes, they're doing something, but they're not doing enough. It's not actually aligned with what climate scientists are telling us. They love to talk about how we're a small jurisdiction. We're actually one of the biggest fossil fuel exporters in the world. So, we have a real role to play in this. And Australians love punching above our weight. You look at- on the sports field, historically, in terms of global diplomacy, we've punched above our weight. This is an opportunity. We've got so much to lose in this country because we are a dry country of extremes, and that's only going to get worse and worse with climate change. So, so unhelpful to have the Nats out there who are meant to be supporting farmers who are at the front line of climate change.
KARL STEFANOVIC: Well, they're trying to hold on to jobs, and they're trying to guarantee a power supply.
DAVID POCOCK: Yeah, and, you know, I think these are hard things as we do transition the economy. But in the future, there's going to be very few jobs in agriculture if we breach, you know, two degrees of warming and we see the sorts of extremes that are happening in South Australia. If that's happening every year, it's going to be incredibly hard to farm.
KARL STEFANOVIC: Alright, Amanda, how about Trade Minister Don Farrell? He had a bad day the other day.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Oh, look, I think the Coalition has been making a mountain out of a molehill. Playing politics as usual…
KARL STEFANOVIC: Oh, come on. I don’t think you can say, hey, they did discuss something, when they didn’t.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: I think he has clarified his comments. It is not a surprise to any Australian. In fact, we've discussed it on this show, that Donald Trump made public his issues around beef imports and exports. That was not a secret. I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill, quite frankly. Just silly politics. What's important here is putting forward our best foot for the national interest to be prosecuting our case with the US and that's what our Government will keep doing.
KARL STEFANOVIC: I just think it was wishful thinking on part of Don Farrell is a great guy, but he just got that wrong. David, do you think there should be an inquiry? I mean, it's starting to look more and more like a dog's breakfast.
DAVID POCOCK: I think there's real questions to answer around the timing of this. And on the bigger issue, who's going to buy American beef? We have some of the best beef in the world here in Australia. I certainly won't be buying US beef, and I think a lot of Australians will see it on the shelf, if it even gets here, and say, well, I'm going to support Australian farmers.
KARL STEFANOVIC: I hope so. But cost of living, you never know what they're going to do.
AMANDA RISHWORTH: Not only will a lot of Australians buy Australian beef, but we need to export it to other markets to make sure our farmers stay in business.
KARL STEFANOVIC: Just really quickly while I've got you, David, the weekend, I mean, the end of the Wallabies game, I mean, the people from the old dart, you know, they're just up in arms about all this on podcasts and saying that we're just whinging Australians. That surely was against the rules. You have an opinion about this, my man?
DAVID POCOCK: Yeah, there's a couple of rules there. One, you can't hit someone on the neck, as someone who's got a bit of neck damage from doing exactly that. But then also you have to stay on your feet at a ruck. That was my understanding of the rules. So I was gutted for the Wallabies. I thought it was a massive, massive effort and it would have been great to be going into a decider. So, yeah, one of those really tough calls.
KARL STEFANOVIC: It wasn’t a dive either. He didn’t try milk the penalty.
DAVID POCOCK: I mean, maybe it didn't help it, but yeah, I think you've got to look at what happened before that.
KARL STEFANOVIC: Yeah, that can stop. We've got the Ashes later in the year anyway. Thank you guys. I appreciate your time.