Interview with Andrew Clennell -Sunday Agenda, Sky News

ANDREW CLENNELL, HOST:    Well joining me live now is Employment and Workplace Relations Minister Amanda Rishworth from Adelaide. Amanda Rishworth, thanks so much for your time. Let me start by asking about the Budget and the wash-up. Do you have any fears in terms of these broken promises costing the Government and perhaps directing votes to One Nation?

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS:    Well, firstly I would say, Andrew, I’m very proud of this Budget. This Budget is a reforming Budget. It’s about rebalancing the tax system along with many other things in fuel security for example and also support for small and medium businesses and, so there’s some really key elements of this Budget. But fundamentally, if we’re talking about the tax changes, about rebalancing, ensuring that workers get a fair go and homeowners get a fair go. Reform is never easy. A reform is always hard but we’re up for it and we believe that this is the right thing for the country, what we’ve got to get done.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Now the PM didn’t see it as necessary to apologise for the broken promises. Why does the Government feel it can say, just one year after an election, things have changed and we can increase taxes?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, let’s be really clear firstly. This is about rebalancing the system so we are giving more tax cuts to workers as a result of this broad tax package. So a thing that’s really important to recognise is while we’re changing the tax settings, over the forward estimates, workers get the benefit of that through the Working Australian Tax Offset. But I'd also say, Andrew, I think it's fair to say that we have really made housing a focus. Made housing a focus, we've put $47 billion and well, it's clear we still need to do more. And that's why we've made these changes. That's why we've looked at the tax system and say it's just still not working. We need to make these changes. And so they are hard decisions to make. But I think history, if we didn't actually make some changes, will mark us down as having the opportunity to do something about it, and if we hadn't done anything about it, I think we'd be marked down in history.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Are you confident they'll pass the Senate?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, obviously negotiations are still going on. I'm not going to get into the numbers in the Senate, but I think we've got a very compelling proposition to put to the Parliament and to put to the Senate. And so I would hope that all senators genuinely engage in this and actually look at what the benefits are through this reform and encourage them to engage in that process.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    What do you make of New Zealand Prime Minister Christopher Luxon yesterday describing capital gains tax as a wrecking ball tax he'd never introduced to his country?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, we've got two different countries with two different tax systems. Let's be really clear. New Zealand has a different tax system to our tax system. Capital gains tax has existed in our country as we've been discussing for a very long time. There's been changes along the way. And we are looking at capital gains and changing that to rebalance it and make it fairer. But just to be really clear, I don't think you can compare apples with oranges when we're talking about different tax systems and different countries.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    It's a bit of a shot at your Government, though, isn't it, these comments?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, I would suggest that neither leaders would seek to get involved in domestic politics. And quite frankly, it was a very warm meeting and demonstrates the good relationship we have with New Zealand, our very close, close neighbour. But I wouldn't suggest it was a shot across the bow. I would suggest that both leaders are operating in a completely different tax system in their country.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    But he says it's a wrecking ball, the tax. You're upping that tax. You're taking the discount off.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    We're not upping that tax, Andrew.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Do you- do you think- well, you actually are. Like, you are increasing your tax take from that tax.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, what we are doing is changing the way that capital gains is calculated and looking at what is an appropriate tax rate for that. Of course, we are rebalancing the system.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Which brings in more revenue. Which is an upping of the tax, Amanda Rishworth.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    It is a rebalancing of the tax system and that extra tax that we're getting is being redirected to workers. Workers will be better off in this country as a result of these tax changes.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Yeah, but not over 10 years, over the forward estimates. But anyway, let's move on. What did you make of Barnaby Joyce's gaffe on policy concerning permanent residents and homes?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, it really demonstrated to me just the confusion that One Nation has and the chaos potentially that One Nation will bring. I mean, we didn't just have Barnaby Joyce, there were other members of One Nation that couldn't answer the question, couldn't tell us how much it's going to cost, there were excuses about why that couldn't be costed. So, to be honest, I think if One Nation wants to be taken seriously, they've got to do the work. And, unfortunately, what we saw here was One Nation being able to identify a problem but be absolutely chaotic in what that solution could look like.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Well, Labor's also making something of the statements by Pauline Hanson on Sunday Agenda last week that the Parliamentary Budget Office couldn't cost her policies prior to One Nation becoming a political party. What did you make of that statement? The Government contention is it's not true.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, what we see, I think, unfortunately, as I said, is One Nation is very good at identifying problems, but when it comes to solutions, not very good at finding those solutions. And then in this circumstance, it seems there was excuses about why those policies couldn't be costed. I mean, if One Nation wants to be taken seriously, they need to act like a serious party, just not making up things on the run, making up really things that just aren't going to work. I mean, this is the fundamental problem with One Nation. I get why people might be looking for different options. But, importantly, I think it's worth recognising that One Nation's very good at defining problems and very divisive problems, but don't necessarily have the solutions.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Do you see One Nation as having the potential to become the official opposition in this country?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, I'm not going to make predictions like that, I have to say. That will be up to the Australian people on voting day. But what I would say is that there is a pretty clear sign that One Nation or people are disaffected with the Liberal Party and are moving to One Nation. What happens on election day is entirely a matter for the Australian people, but I'm not going to get too caught up in the- what is really a demarcation dispute and a pretty big argument between the Liberal Party and One Nation. I mean, on many issues, there are two sides of the same coin, really. But what I'm going to be focused on as Minister and Minister of a Labor Government is making sure that we progress the interests of the Australian people, making some of the hard decisions, but ultimately making sure that we've got a country where people can get ahead.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Ms Hanson made some comments last week as well on this program on the minimum wage and IR reform, saying costs are too high for business. Has she got a point? And is this something you'll be seeking to exploit politically?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Senator Hanson's comments about the minimum wage were deeply disappointing. She says that she's on the side of working people but can't bring herself to back in a minimum wage increase for the lowest paid workers in this country. But what I would say about the minimum wage is the Fair Work Commission goes through a lot of deliberation about how to set this minimum wage. They do look at business conditions. They do look at profitability as well as the needs of working people. They've settled on what I think is a very responsible wage increase. It is a real wage increase for workers. But we've got to remember these are the lowest paid workers in the country and they deserve a wage increase. And so it was really- I mean, I thought it was quite surprising but also very disappointing that Senator Hanson couldn't back in that wage increase for workers.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    This minimum wage increase last week down to 4.75 per cent determined by the Fair Work Commission. Does the Government take any credit for that?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, we obviously have put in a submission. We, as a Government, decided we should be advocating for workers and so we put a submission in to the Fair Work Commission. We have every single year since we've been in Government and we advocated for a real wage increase. Of course, the Fair Work Commission is independent and makes that decision. But we actually made it very clear what our position was, that we wanted to back workers in respect to an economically responsible real wage increase.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Is this a real wage increase in the short term?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, this obviously is a real wage increase in terms of where inflation is currently sitting. Of course, people have to make predictions about where inflation will be. Obviously, Treasury predicts that inflation by the end of the year in which this pay increase ends will be back within band. So you've got to make as many predictions as possible. But certainly, from where we currently stand, this is a real wage increase.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    But inflation in the Budget papers for 25-26 is put at five per cent, so that's bigger than the increase, right?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    It also returns during the same period to 2.5 per cent in the Budget papers. So you've got to have a look over that period of time. But this is good news for workers and this is good news particularly for, and I point to our workers on the minimum wage, where the Commission actually gave a higher than 4.75 per cent increase. This is a relatively small number of workers, those that rely on the minimum wage, but they actually delivered a six per cent increase for those workers, recognising they are particularly low paid.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    There was a breakout during the week in caucus involving Ed Husic asking for AUKUS to be rethought. Is Ed becoming an embittered troublemaker?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, Ed is a valued member of our caucus and, of course, people are entitled to their own opinions. But I'll make some comments as a South Australian Member of Parliament. AUKUS is not only critical for the country, it is so critical for our state. I speak with businesses and workers that are gearing up for AUKUS and this project is just so important and really takes our industrial capability in the state of South Australia to something that we have never seen before. So this is an incredibly exciting project from a South Australian perspective, but it's also a critical one for the nation. And it is really important, as the Defence Minister has been doing, is getting on with the job of delivering this. We can't chop and change. We need to get on with this and we are doing just that.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    But his comments aren't that helpful, are they?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, he's entitled to have his comments and that's entirely up to him. But what I'm saying from my perspective is this is such a critically important project for the country, for the Government, but also for the state of South Australia.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    What about the second-hand sub element? Is that a concern, that they’re all second-hand subs coming?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    No, it's not a concern. What we are doing through this AUKUS process is making sure that the details of the settings are fit for purpose. And as the Defence Minister has said, this reduces the complexity of running different types of submarines. And so there is some real upside here for Australia. But as we work through this project, we are going to make sure that we continue to deliver in our national interests and this is part of the program going forward. And this is a really important project for Australia. I can't overstate that. And seeing it come to life, seeing the decisions being made, there was- previous government would put a press release out. That's about as much evidence you got on any defence projects. But when it comes to this, actually getting the arrangements in place should give everyone the confidence that this project is going ahead and will deliver for our country.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    We've had this bizarre stoush in the Fair Work Commission involving Commissioner Jennifer Hunt and Vice President Ingrid Asbury. Ms Hunt was accused of using a homophobic slur at a function as well. Does this alarm you? Should she still be a Commissioner? What's going on in there, Amanda Rishworth?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, firstly, I would say the Fair Work Commission is an incredibly important institution in our country and it's really important that that has the full faith of the Australian people. There's been some allegations alleged, in terms of some past allegations. I asked a retired federal court judge to conduct an inquiry into that. There were no findings in that inquiry and so there was no more action that I was required to take. There has been now further allegations and complaints meant and I'm seeking advice from my department on those.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    But can you understand, I mean, this is the body that decides a lot of pretty important matters in this country. This looks chaotic and just a bunch of silly behaviour. Would you consider the removal of any of these people?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, I'm seeking advice from my department about this. It's very important that I get the right advice, and so I'm doing that. But you're right, the Fair Work Commission does need to be respected across Australia. But I don't want to get into the details. As I said, I'm seeking advice from my department.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    So heads might roll?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, I'm not going to pre-empt anything. What I'm saying is I'm seeking advice into some of the complaints that have made it to my attention.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Finally, there's an article in the Sunday Telegraph today about Sports Minister Anika Wells spending more than $300 for a three-kilometre trip in Canberra on COMCARs a couple of times. Has this Minister made it hard for other ministers with her at times cavalier use of taxpayer-funded entitlements?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I would say that Anika Wells is an excellent Minister. She does a great job in both communications and in sport. In terms of when it comes to Anika's travel, she did the right thing. She asked for IPEA to look at her travel. She has then been really upfront and explained where she may have inadvertently not been within the rules and that's been dealt with. I think broadly she's done the right thing and has been very transparent and I'll just leave it at that.

ANDREW CLENNELL:    Amanda Rishworth, thanks for your time.