ABC News Afternoon Briefing with Patricia Karvelas

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST:    Also today, the Federal Government has asked the Fair Work Commission to give minimum and award wage workers an above inflation pay rise this year. The Employment Minister is Amanda Rishworth, and she's my guest this afternoon. Minister, welcome.

AMANDA RISHWORTH, MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT AND WORKPLACE RELATIONS:    Great to be with you. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    So you want it to be above inflation, but decision isn't going to happen until July. So does that mean whatever that inflation rate might be should be above that? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, what we've said is we want an economically sustainable real wage increase. And there's a number of things the Fair Work Commission must look at, and they will go through their processes to determine that. But we think that our lowest-paid workers shouldn't be left behind, that they should be able to get a decent wage increase.

Now, when it comes to which inflation measures that the Commission looks at, of course, they look at a range of measures. They don't just look at the month that's just been, they do projections over the year that the pay increase will be flowing. So, they'll be looking at a range of inflation measures to work out what they will use, but we do think that we can obtain an economically sustainable wage increase without putting upward pressure on inflation. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Okay. So, if the rate is 5 per cent by July, that means if you want workers to go forward, it has to be higher than 5 per cent. 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, that is not how the Commission looks at only one data point of inflation, it also projects over the period of time in which the wage increase will actually be rolled out. So, there's a range of different inflation measures that it will look at. It doesn't just look at the month that's just been but-

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    [Interrupts] I know that. But the annual rate of inflation, it will look at that and make a determination.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    [Talks over] It will make a determination based on that. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    [Talks over] The Treasurer has told us that inflation will increase and is likely to increase under the modelling that the Treasury is preparing because of the Middle East crisis. So because of that, right, it could be up to 5 per cent, so we could actually be dealing with quite a significant pay rise. 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, what we're asking for- obviously, it's a very volatile circumstance - we don't know how long this war will go for, the duration of this war - but what we don't want to see is our lowest-paid workers go backwards, that's what we don't want to see. As I said, the Commission is independent, makes its decision. It takes in a range of factors, including the national economy, but it will also look at projections going forward. I will note, before we were looking at the issues in the Middle East it was projected to decrease over the year, but obviously, things change. The Commission will have a range of bits of information. But our position is that our lowest-paid workers should…

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    [Talks over] Should be above that inflation rate. 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    …well, should get an economically sustainable real wage increase. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Okay. I know that you're frustrated about my questions, but what I'm trying to get at is if that keeps- that inflation figure that they're looking at continues to rise, is there a point at which the Commonwealth says, well, actually, we think now that's too high? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, you also have to project into the future over the term. So, it's not just the annualised-

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    [Talks over] If the projection shows that?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, I'm not going to get into a whole lot of hypotheticals here. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    [Talks over] No. But the Commonwealth does go to the Fair Work Commission in May, makes an argument…

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    [Talks over] We will, absolutely. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    …you know, put [indistinct] written submission. So what are the caveats from there? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, we have put a written submission in today. We have argued for a real- economically sustainable real wage increase. That is our position. We're not going to pick a figure. There's a lot of economic data the Commission makes, and they do make it independently. But that's what the Government thinks. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    [Talks over] Workers can only get ahead, it's just pure maths, if it is above inflation, right? So it has to be above inflation.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, over the year in which it's projected. So look, I'm not going to get into the semantics. In terms of the inflation data, they look at a range of different inflation data to determine what a real economically sustainable real wage increase is, that's what the Commission will do. And we're saying workers should get an economically sustainable wage increase and not go backwards. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Business wants it to be 3.5 per cent, as you know. You think that's too low? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, what I'm saying- I'm not going to nominate a number. What's really clear from business, though, is that they recognise that our lowest-paid workers do need a wage increase. Of course unions, businesses will all be able to put in an application, and the independent Commission will make a determination. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Okay, just a couple of other issues. Of course, there is this fuel issue going on in the country. You know, language matters. Are we in a fuel crisis? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, let's be really clear. We have seen an increase in demand in people needing fuel. The fuel that has been coming to our country has continued to come. To meet the increase in demand our Government has taken a number of steps, including reducing the rules around what type of petrol can be sold, what standard of diesel can be sold. They've also released some of our minimum stockpiles, so we are responding to the increase in demand. But let's be really clear, the ships are still coming. There is a challenge with making sure that the fuel gets to where it's needed because of that increase in demand. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    [Interrupts] Should it be nationally coordinated? Because it's run at a state level, that's the difficulty. There's calls for it to be national. There's a National Cabinet meeting on Monday. Would that be a sensible way? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    So there has been a National Cabinet meeting and there has been agreement to coordinate. That is why we have appointed a National Fuel Supply Coordinator to do exactly that work. So, obviously, the states and territories have the information, have the power. We do need to work together, and that's why the coordinator has been appointed to work across jurisdictions, but also to work across the Commonwealth as well, and that's really important. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    But there is a National Cabinet meeting so that means there's more to come, and the Government said there'll be more to come. Working from home is very much in your remit as Employment Minister. Will you be recommending that people should work from home? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Look, first I would say that working from home is really useful for so many people. People will save money on fuel when they work from home, when they can balance their family and work responsibilities. We are not at the stage that- to direct people to work from home.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    [Interrupts] But you could get to that stage. 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    But, of course there is work to be done if and when, depending on the length of this crisis, where we look at other measures. But at the moment, we are not directing people to work from home. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't sit down. If working from home works for them, it's certainly something I'm passionate about all the time, if it works for employers and employees to come to those agreements, then I support that.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:   But if it's necessary, you would mandate it?

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    I'm not talking about hypotheticals here. What we're talking about now is to ensure that we're making sure that supply is coming, that petrol and diesel gets to where it's needed. There's been some challenges there, and we continue to work because of that high demand. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Just on industrial action, the ABC took 24 hours of industrial action, as no doubt you know. Do you support that? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    I support people negotiating first and foremost. I encourage enterprise bargaining, that's a really important feature of our system. Of course, what I like to see when people are bargaining is for the two parties to resolve their differences as quickly as possible and able to strike a deal. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    But the opposition criticised ABC staff for going on strike.

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    There are many options that people can take within the law and that can happen in a bargaining process. I would encourage bargaining, I would encourage the resolution. I know that assistance has been requested from the Fair Work Commission. We have a very good independent umpire and I would encourage that work to be done.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Another strike this week in my home state of Victoria. Those teachers are the lowest paid in the country. Do you have sympathy for those teachers? 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:    Well, look, once again, I would say that I would encourage both parties to come to an agreement as soon as possible. Of course, the great thing about enterprise bargaining is people can put both sides forward. If a resolution cannot be found - and I must say, we've had the most amount of people covered by an enterprise bargaining agreement ever in the history of enterprise bargaining - but if people can't come to an agreement, use the Commission, use the tools to resolve this as quickly as possible. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS:    Minister, thanks for coming in. 

AMANDA RISHWORTH:   Thank you.