Interview - 4CA Breakfast with Murray Jones
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
4CA BREAKFAST WITH MURRAY JONES
WEDNESDAY, 17 JULY 2024
Topics: Care and Support TAFE Centre of Excellence for Cairns, Skills in a changing economy, Foundation Skills training
MURRAY JONES, HOST: Just talking about Pretty Woman, the song from Roy Orbison, way back in 1964. Don’t know that he was around in 1964, but my special guest this morning, Minister for Skills and Training Federally, the Honourable Brendan O’Connor. Good morning, welcome to Cairns.
BRENDAN O'CONNOR, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Morning, Murray. It’s good to be with you. It’s beautiful up here. It’s so warm.
JONES: You’ve brought a polar blast with you, though, by the sound of things.
O’CONNOR: Well, let me tell you – however cold you think it is - I’m defrosting because I’m from Melbourne.
JONES: I can imagine, too.
O’CONNOR: It’s been magnificent, frankly. I love coming here.
JONES: Let’s talk about a pretty important announcement – and I know that there’s been quite an investment, particularly in TAFE here in Cairns. $35 million, basically a Centre of Excellence, and basically advancing partnerships with care providers, universities, also Jobs and Skills Councils, unions in Queensland, national and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island health councils. But I guess it’s coming to ensure TAFE students receive the high-level skills and training they need to succeed. Because I guess the job market is ever-changing. So that’s the real focus of this new initiative.
O’CONNOR: That’s right. The labour market is changing faster than at any time in history, and we need to have education and training sectors making sure that they provide the best skills and knowledge possible. What this is about, creating a Centre of Excellence is bringing the unis together with the TAFEs and working with businesses. And if you do that right, then we’re going to supply the skills, firstly for workers who need good jobs, secondly, to businesses who are crying out for the skills.
JONES: Sure.
O’CONNOR: And finally for the country. We need a strong labour market, a great economy, because if we want to maintain or improve our standard of living, then the best thing we can do is increase the knowledge and skills of our labour market. And if you look around the world, the countries with the best and most skilled and most knowledgeable labour markets are the richest countries in the world. And Australia’s doing well, but we can’t get complacent. Things are changing rapidly and the education and training sectors have to keep up with that technological change to provide the skills that apprentices, trainees or people at university absolutely need.
JONES: And this particular focus interestingly on the healthcare sector and allied health, I should imagine, obviously in our part of the world, sugar cane was where we’ve come from. Tourism - one of the biggest industries. But interestingly, the biggest industry, the biggest employer in this whole region is in health and in allied health, so I guess those needs in the future.
O’CONNOR: And the biggest in the country. It’s not just here.
JONES: Yeah, sure.
O’CONNOR: You know a lot of people come to this magnificent part of Australia to retire. So, you do probably have an even higher proportion of older Australians. And look, it’s a challenge, but it’s a great challenge. I mean, the reason the population is ageing is because we’re living longer. That’s the only reason. And that’s good. People are getting a lease of life after they retire from work. But the challenge, right, is then to attend to people’s needs as they get older. And the best way to do that is to train people in areas, whether it’s older people or people with disability. And again, the best countries in the world – and I see Australia as one of them, if not the absolute best – is you look after your senior citizens, you look after your older citizens. And the way to do that is to make sure you have a care sector that has people in it, firstly, that care – that’s the most important thing - and they tend to always care; people are sort of attracted to it – but they have to have the right skill set. And they have to have the right understanding. And the only way that can happen, apart from work on the job, is a TAFE sector and unis that work together to understand the needs of older Australians or people with disability. And that’s why I’m so proud of the announcement today with Jim Chalmers who’s going to be here too; he’s just coming up today, the Treasurer of the country, is to create this Centre of Excellence between the Miles Government and the Albanese Government to help people in this region, help the workers who get the skills, help the businesses who provide the care along with public providers and ultimately help the recipients of the care. Because ultimately that’s what it’s about.
JONES: Sure.
O’CONNOR: But there’s a tick-tick, there’s a win-win-win.
JONES: All the way around.
O’CONNOR: Workers, businesses and the people in receipt of care are all winners if we get it right.
JONES: And, you know, look, the focus on regional areas – and I guess that’s one of the reasons why we’re pleased to have this type of investment here in Cairns – the digital divide is one issue, but also, I guess, the changing and growing needs of employers to actually have people that are job ready and have the right skills and knowledge base because, you know, very difficult in education – we’ll come to that in just a sec – with things continually changing, which makes it very difficult too.
O’CONNOR: It is difficult. And you’ve got to keep up. And because the labour market is changing even more rapidly than usual, it means that our education and training sectors, whether it’s universities or TAFE, whether it’s even primary or secondary school, have to be responsive to the changes, right? So, there’s a lag between what’s happening in the economy and what’s happening in education. Well, we’ve just got to be faster at anticipating the changing nature. We have to be faster in understanding where the future jobs are, the future skill needs are and then direct, whether it’s government or industry, our investment in skills in areas of emerging demand.
JONES: Yep, sure.
O’CONNOR: And if we don’t get that right, then we’re going to be left wanting.
JONES: My partner is a year 6 primary schoolteacher. The other night she was talking about triangular numbers. Do you know what a triangular number is?
O’CONNOR: No, I’ve never heard of it in my life. I was really good at times tables, and I was probably the best speller in year 6. Even beat the girls.
JONES: Is that right?
O’CONNOR: Which is hard to believe, because, you know –
JONES: But you don’t know what a triangular number is?
O’CONNOR: A triangular number? You tell me what it is.
JONES: I don’t know either.
O’CONNOR: Because you didn’t know until your wife told you, right?
JONES: That’s true. Let’s imagine a pile of barrels. So, if your, I guess, your desire in life is to become somebody who stacks barrels and you put them horizontally along their axis, their long axis, and you’re stacking them, if you start with four barrels, you can put three barrels on top of that. Then you can put two barrels on top of that and you get one at the top. It creates a triangle. So, 10 – 4, 3, 2 and 1 equals 10. A triangular number.
O’CONNOR: Okay.
JONES: But why are we teaching year 6 kids this? And I guess that’s what I’m getting at.
O’CONNOR: I’m sure there’s a practical reason for that to be understood. But –
JONES: Well, there is for algebra, but, I mean, really, at year 6? And that’s coming back to what we’re talking about – making sure the kids have the right type of skills and understanding. You know, if they’re really keen on more complex algebra, that’s something you can do at high school. I guess – and look, you know, this is probably changing because there are some changes in the Queensland curriculum, but I guess these are the type of things that are changing in our educational environment that we need to ensure that we’re not wasting time teaching kids how to stack barrels.
O’CONNOR: Well, when you exemplified the definition of triangular, it didn’t sound that complex to me, and I’m sure year 6 –
JONES: Even I understood in the end.
O’CONNOR: If you understood, then any year 6 kid would, right? But my point is that you’re right about the fundamentals, you’re right, Murray. Like, we have to focus on the foundation skills of learning – you know, reading, writing –
JONES: That’s right.
O’CONNOR: And digital literacy today.
JONES: Sure.
O’CONNOR: You can’t live without digital literacy these days, whether it’s for work or whether it’s dealing with a bank or whatever.
JONES: Sure, sure.
O’CONNOR: And so, look, the Albanese Government is really focused on that. You know one in five adult Australians are struggling with foundation skills – one in five. That means most of them are actually in the labour market. But most of them have trouble reading and writing. And that’s not just bad for work and the labour market; it’s bad for them looking after their kids. They can’t look at their kids’ homework.
JONES: Yep, sure.
O’CONNOR: Can’t engage with a bank properly, you know, they’re not sure what the letter says. So, we’ve just invested money to say that all adults who struggle with foundation skills can get access to support. Because it’s not just good for them personally and their families and their employer, it’s good for the country. If we lift those basic skills, it means that they can learn things that they can’t learn without them. Without those skills, you can’t acquire knowledge and you can’t acquire skills in the same way. One in five. A rich country like Australia – one in five adults, right? Twenty per cent.
JONES: Concerning, isn’t it? It is.
O’CONNOR: Hard to believe, but we’re doing stuff there too. And I think it’s a great thing. And look, for your wife as a teacher, well, there’s no more noble profession than teaching.
JONES: Sure.
O’CONNOR: And so, what she does and what thousands and thousands of Australians do – teaching kids, whether it’s primary, secondary or tertiary – really are sometimes the most unspoken heroes because without them we would not be where we are as a country.
JONES: Yeah. But thankfully this $35 million as well going into the Centre of Excellence here in Cairns. Particularly in that health sector as well. Make sure that you say hello to the Treasurer Jim Chalmers for me.
O’CONNOR: Will do.
JONES: Ask him if he knows what a triangular number is.
O’CONNOR: I bet you he does, right?
JONES: I bet you he probably does, too.
O’CONNOR: He’s into numbers. But I will ask him that, and it’s great that he’s up here. He’s obviously focused on things, and he’s a Queenslander. He’s not like me – from the deep south, from freezing Melbourne. So, when he gets here, he doesn’t sort of even notice the difference. “It’s a bit warmer, but not that much warmer”. Whereas I go, “God, this is great.” So, no, I’ll talk to him. And look, he’s here because he understands how important it is that we make this investment for Queenslanders. And he understands that. And he’s chipped some money in, too, on top of the money that I invested. And we’re doing this because we really feel if we invest in this area, we help workers, we help businesses and ultimately, we help the people that need proper care in this country, including this magnificent part of Australia.
JONES: Thanks for dropping in. Hopefully, you’ve thawed out by now. But Minister for Skills and Training, Brendan O’Connor, have a great day.
O’CONNOR: Thanks, Murray.
JONES: Cheers.