Television Interview - Sky News Afternoon Agenda

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Joining me live now, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman, who would never make an obscene gesture behind the Prime Minister's back, and former Liberal MP, Jason Falinski. Just in case you're wondering our previous story, Pat, did have that with a New Zealand Prime Minister. In case you think I'm being a bit strange, but I'll start - 

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: I always think you're strange, Tom. 

CONNELL: There you go. I started well. Jason, I'm going to start with you, and I'm sure you'll agree with Pat that I'm a strange character. Bit happened since I last asked you this question. I'll put it in a new way, Jason, can Angus Taylor save the Liberal Party and pull back all those One Nation votes?

JASON FALINSKI, FORMER LIBERAL MP: Tom, I don't think it's about One Nation votes. I think it's about us appealing to the great majority of Australians who have been left out by this Government. And can Angus do that? Absolutely. Could Sussan Ley do that? Absolutely, she could as well. It's a matter of doing it. It's not about talking. It's about getting on with it.

CONNELL: Not sure if you read Rob Harris's article over the weekend in the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age about another form of a party. 

FALINSKI: This is a set up. 

CONNELL: Well, it's not, because I probably should have asked you before the show if you had read it, because you could just answer no. Don't say that, about maybe Teals and moderate Liberals and, you know, figuring out what seats you can win and maybe a whole new party. Is that something that's being spoken about? 

FALINSKI: Look, I haven't spoken to Rob Harris about that, Tom, and I don't know anyone that's talking to the Teals about that. The problem with the Teals is, that they are a far left political organisation. They're a political party. They're funded, as today's returns show, by a lot of billionaires out of the United States. Their policies are not representative of the communities they represent, and there has been a lot of hate and division that they have been, you know, not standing up to and, in some cases, also mouthing. So I don't think there's very much for the moderate Liberals to talk to the Teals about. I don't think there's anything for the Liberals to talk to the Teals about at all, until they start improving - 

CONNELL: Doesn't sound like 'Jason Falinski, Treasurer, under an Allegra Spender Government.' I'm going to go out and be that bold. All right, Pat, your turn. One Nation, we've spoken a lot about that on a Liberal side, they are also hoovering up some of the Labor vote. What do you put that down to?

GORMAN: Look, as you would know, Tom. People will always seek to comment on polls. I think if you look at how One Nation talks a big game during electoral cycles, and then where they kind of land come election time, I think that's probably a better reflection of where the One Nation support sits. Obviously, the Liberal Party made Barnaby Joyce Deputy Prime Minister, trained him up to then go and defect from the National Party and jump over to help out One Nation. 

CONNELL: They trained him up for One Nation.

GORMAN: They did. Let's be clear - 

CONNELL: The Manchurian Candidate? 

GORMAN: The Liberal Party created and supported One Nation. They pre-selected Pauline Hanson [inaudible] candidate. People forget that. And then what enables One Nation to grow and grow is, election on election, Liberal and National Party preferences.

CONNELL: Mark Latham [inaudible] at One Nation. Was that - was he a puppet as well?

GORMAN: Well, I'm glad he's not in my party anymore. Simple as that.

CONNELL: All right, bit of a different response. Well, okay, would you like to see Labor place One Nation last at the next election, Pat? Are you standing on your principles there?

GORMAN: That is what we have done at every election. 

CONNELL: You'll do it again?

GORMAN: That is what we've done at every election. Standing position of the Australian Labor Party. 

FALINSKI: Didn't do it in Mackellar in 2022. 

CONNELL: This bloke would know.

GORMAN: Jason, you know the '22 election in Mackellar much better than I do. I am not familiar with what other extremist candidates were in that particular contest, but as - 

CONNELL: Okay, well, let's go down the rabbit hole then. What - where did Labor put One Nation above, Jason?

FALINSKI: Sorry? Where did they put - I can't remember where they were, but I was last on there - 

CONNELL: You can't remember? Your own - what, your seat.

FALINSKI: I know, Tom, I know. Well, it was a few years ago, okay, but - 

CONNELL: The Libs were ahead of One Nation for Labor. Is that fair to say? 

FALINSKI: Sorry. No, no, no, no. We were at the bottom of Labor's how to vote, so they preferenced us last in Mackellar in 2022. 

CONNELL: You better step that through - 

GORMAN: I am going to want the receipts on that, Jason. 

FALINSKI: Okay, fair enough. If I'm wrong, I apologise now, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

CONNELL: Jesus, you came in so - 

GORMAN: The confidence is just crashing. 

CONNELL: [Inaudible] sort of went, 'Member for Mackellar, 2022, Jason will know.'

FALINSKI: Hey, listen, all of us here are married. We all know we could be wrong.

CONNELL: On that note - furious agreement. Although I can say what I like, my wife never watches. Patrick. RBA - you going to blame the RBA on this? Or is it that very high Labor spending, inarguably high Labor spending as a rate of GDP since Covid?

GORMAN: Okay, let us first tell all of your viewers Labor's found $114 billion of savings since we came to office. But secondly, remind your viewers that the Reserve Bank makes these decisions independently, just as they did under the previous Coalition Government. We saw a number of rate reductions that started last year, and I know that there will be mortgage holders in my electorate and across the country, who will be keen to hear what the Reserve Bank Governor, has to say tomorrow, but I'm not going to prejudge them.

CONNELL: They might not be keen. Well, let me put it this way, in a simple way, because I know you're worried about the viewers and the information - Labor's spending - 

GORMAN: I respect your viewers, Tom. 

CONNELL: As a percent of GDP, is it A) about 25%, where it was before Covid, or B) at about 27% or $50 billion extra per year. 

GORMAN: We have in every budget, and I'll remind your viewers, two surplus budgets delivered by Labor. Not a single surplus budget delivered when Jason was in Parliament. 

FALINSKI: They weren't surplus budgets. 

GORMAN: But we have continued to make very difficult decisions to make sure that we prioritise the things that we know the Australian people want us to invest in. Things like the investments in Medicare, investments in cheaper medicines, investments we've made in free TAFE, so we've got the skills and job opportunities we need for the future. And happy third birthday for free TAFE, which was on Saturday. We will continue to invest in things the Australian people want us to invest in.

CONNELL: They weren't surpluses, Jason, are you going down the structural path? Because they were surpluses.

FALINSKI: No, they weren't, Tom. Tom, look, can we - this happens every time we talk about the budget. Spending is not investment. Debt went up under the Labor Party since the May '22 Election. The reason that they were able to declare surpluses, was a bit like Enron. They had all these off balance sheet entities that were spending money that they weren't counting towards the budget. On top of that, if we had used the same accounting standards that Labor used in May '22, we would have had a budget surplus in 2019 and as I understand it, in 2020. So this is just nonsense. The problem is this, spending is your real tax. Because you're either getting tax for it today or you're going to get taxed for it tomorrow. There's no such thing as free TAFE. Someone is paying for that TAFE. So all of this stuff that Labor loves to trot out in their talking points and their sound bites, is just absolute financial nonsense. And at some point, at some point, the bond markets are going to call time out on this, and reality is going to take over. And we're not that far away from it, I don't think.  

CONNELL: Patrick, let's highlight one of the spending elements on childcare, because - and to be fair, this happens when Jason was a part of the Government, and when you're part of the Labor Government. We see this huge increase in spending for the childcare rebate. Everybody pats each other on the back and says, 'how good is this for parents?' And within a year or two, fees just catch up and completely wipe it out. That's just happened again. Is it time for a circuit breaker, rather than just throwing dollar after dollar on childcare? 

GORMAN: Tom, you would remember the last time we made a significant investment in the early childhood education and care sector. We did so to get wages up for those people that make sure that children are cared for and educated. And in doing so, we had some restrictions on how much childcare centres that receive that additional funding could pass on to the parents and families that rely on those services. As a result, we've seen some, I think about 15,000 people return to the sector dealing with some of the childcare shortages that we've seen, which was holding people back from getting jobs or further education. That obviously does contribute to economic growth, that Jason was making a weird and tortured analogy around comparing his own country to Enron. I thought that was pretty weird. Obviously, he doesn't stand up to any scrutiny. And I'll note, he won't find a single serious economist anywhere in this country, who will come on this panel and repeat the claims that Jason just made.

CONNELL: Would they? Would they all say that Labor's spending is very high as percent of GDP, though, Patrick?

FALINSKI: Well, I want to reply to this. 

GORMAN: My experience actually told me that if - I don't think you could ever find all the economists in Australia to agree on anything. 

CONNELL: Well, except - well, all right. Well, let's see.

GORMAN: [Inaudible] 

CONNELL: [inaudible] 

CONNELL: Look, congratulations to you, Patrick, you're free of childcare spending yourself. First day of school for your youngest. I guess you just - and genuinely would be a bit tough. What you get sent photos? Could the PM have just delayed question time and allow you to have some more precious moments?

GORMAN: I got lots of precious moments with our kids over the Christmas break. Jess dropped them off at school this morning. I am incredibly proud of Leo and Ruby for getting to this stage where they are both being dropped off at the same school. It is very exciting for us, and I'd say a huge thank you to all of the early childhood educators and carers who looked after them in those earlier years before they were at school age. It really does make a difference. I have seen the difference in my kids. We know it's a long-term investment in our children. And I hope that the review I get this afternoon from Leo and Ruby is a very positive one, particularly for Ruby's first day of full-time schooling. 

CONNELL: I'm sure it was a good one. All the best to you Ruby, and if you're like me, sometimes, by the end of the holidays, the precious moments - I can almost have a little break from them, if I may say it that way. 

ENDS