Television interview - Patricia Karvelas, ABC Afternoon Briefing

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: I want to bring in my political panel for today. Patrick Gorman is the Assistant Minister for Employment. Garth Hamilton is the shadow of Assistant Minister for energy security. Welcome to both of you.
 

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Thanks for having us on.

KARVELAS: This blockade that the US President Donald Trump has announced, sort of counter blockade, if you like. I want to get your view first on this, Garth Hamilton. Firstly, it seems that Pat Conroy confirmed to me earlier that even if a request was made from the US, Australia would not be participating in this. Is that the right judgement?

HAMILTON: Look, I think we understand exactly what the requests are, and we should try and find the appropriate ways to support our allies. I've raised my concerns about putting Australian troops into a war zone where we don't know what the intended outcome or what the exit strategy might look like and sadly, that is still very much the case for what we're seeing here. Information is changing on a daily basis, and it's very difficult to see what role we would play and how long we would play it for.  

KARVELAS: Just getting you a little more on this, there is no request. That's what the Government says. But even if one was made, we wouldn't want to be part of that. Do you think that's the right instinct? 

HAMILTON: Look, I think we need to find the best way we can to support our allies. But I just want to make sure that we're valuing Australian troops lives to the highest level we possibly can and assessing whatever request comes through. We should be waiting to hear that request fully. This is our ally. This is someone we've always been there for. I maintain my concerns, but we should be waiting for that request.

KARVELAS: Patrick Gorman, it's just been clarified by Pat Conroy that even if a request was made, there would be no participation. Why is the Australian Government reluctant?

GORMAN: We have said from the outbreak of this conflict that we are not an active participant in it. We don't seek to change that – as simple as that. And when it comes to what Australia wants – what we think is in both Australia's interests and, ultimately, the interests of the United States, Iran and the world at large – is a return to negotiations, the holding of the ceasefire and freedom of navigation when it comes to ships in that region. That is what we want to see. That is what we think is in Australia's national interest. That is how we will make the decisions we make.

KARVELAS: Okay, so do you think that the US President's announcement, Patrick Gorman, is an escalation of the crisis? 

GORMAN: Look, it's a new announcement that was made overnight. What happens in terms of how that is implemented? I think, like your viewers, we will wait and see –

KARVELAS: Yeah, but is it an escalation or a de-escalation?

GORMAN: I think what we have all seen is that the negotiations that happened over the weekend haven't resulted in further outcomes or a further path towards de-escalation. That is what we want to see. I just encourage everyone who has the ability in the United States and Iran to get back to the negotiating table. That is what Australia wants to see, because that is how every conflict eventually comes to a negotiated outcome. That is how hostilities cease. That is what we want to see here. Anything else is bad news – simple as that.

KARVELAS: Garth, do you see the announcement from the US President as a further escalation of the conflict?

HAMILTON: Maybe just a continued theme of increased lack of confidence that's being built into this conflict, and it's playing out across our communities through here. I don't think anyone has any confidence this thing has been brought to a head anytime soon. 

KARVELAS: Well, on the way we try and tackle it, Garth, your side of politics has been pretty critical of this fuel information campaign that the Government's launched. Why is it the wrong thing to do?

HAMILTON: Look personally, what I'm really, really critical of - and I speak my local concerns here, because that's what I'm most concerned about - we just don't know what the price is going to be. Looking ahead, we have no confidence in our ability to put the next crop in the ground and if we're going to make money in our next harvest. I've got construction companies that have absolutely no confidence that they can put a price on a contract and make money on it. Given the increased costs of the diesel in particular, we're not finding a response from the Government's giving that confidence, and that is what the economy needs. That's the number one thing that we need. 

KARVELAS: The fuel advertising campaign. Do you have a problem with it? 

HAMILTON: I think if you're needing $20 million for a campaign that you previously said was just right-wing propaganda - I think that was the quote that the Prime Minister used - maybe a bit of contrition with that $20 million would go a long way. I think you'd be using this much better on a plan making sure that we have that confidence, and showing Australians what's going to happen. Giving us some confidence that we can actually get on with the investments we need to make if this country is going to continue to pay the taxes it's required to keep the country going.

KARVELAS: Patrick, why spend $20 million telling Australians things that I suppose they could Google search, or ask AI? 

GORMAN: I think, in the answer we just got from the spokesperson for the Liberal and National parties just then, it is clear that too many people in the Parliament itself haven't read the Fuel Security Plan. That has been out there for a few weeks. I would encourage all of your viewers to go and read it. It answers so many of the questions about why this advertising campaign is necessary. It answers a lot of the questions about where we are – that is level two, currently – but also what those levels, three and four, would look like. It also explains the thinking of the National Cabinet, which includes all of the states and territories, and how we are dealing with, as the Prime Minister has said himself, the largest ever spike in fuel prices in human history. So this is pretty serious and it is appropriate –

HAMILTON: So the low confidence levels we are seeing around the country is the fault of Australians? That's what you're saying here Pat. That it is Australian's fault for not reading and understanding this comprehensive document as to why confidence levels is so low across Australia. I push back on that. 

GORMAN: No. I think what I said, very clearly, was that I encourage yourself and your colleagues to go and read this plan. It is clear that too many of your colleagues have not read it, and I think that is incredibly irresponsible, given the times that we face. 

KARVELAS: Patrick, let me ask the question. I mean, the advertising campaign is like, tips on how to save petrol. You think that that's a good use of government money? 

GORMAN: I completely back the campaign, given that this is the number one discussion in households around the country about the cost of fuel. Of course, we should have the Commonwealth Government engaging in that conversation with clear, easy-to-implement steps, but also sharing very openly – we've been very open as we get through all of these challenges – what the National Fuel Security Plan looks like and encouraging people to read it. That is the right step. Some of these measures can save up to 15% or more on fuel. I mean, some people have not been in the position of having to take those steps, but now might be the right time for them to do so. If I can help my constituents to save money, I will – simple as that.

KARVELAS: Okay, all right. I want to move to another topic, starting with you, Garth Hamilton. Pauline Hanson has criticised you, actually, very much for playing gutter politics, for writing a letter to the Speaker of the House about your concern that the convicted rapist, Sean Black, who worked as a One Nation campaign manager, was working in the building. She's now sacked him as far as I can see. But you've been criticised, and they say they're going to run a very strong candidate against you, and that you've been playing dirty politics. Is that what you've been doing?  

HAMILTON: What a fascinating piece for Pauline. She's got to run hard against me because I took a strong position on a violent sex offender? I think that's what she said. That's extraordinary. As if that is going to punish me for being strong on this issue. PK. I think Pauline really didn't think that one through too much. I'm very happy to carry that load for my electorate. Domestic violence is an absolute scourge particularly, unfortunately, in regional communities. I'll stand strong on that. And if Pauline's gonna throw a heap of money about that, then so be it. But you know what? Don't just threaten me. Come to Toowoomba Pauline. This will be the message -  come to Toowoomba and debate me on the DV policy that you've deleted from your website. That would be the right thing.

KARVELAS: They're saying they stand by it, the last thing I saw. But I want a follow up to you, and then to you, Patrick, because I think this is an interesting position that's been put by One Nation's Barnaby Joyce. He said there has to be a chance at redemption for those convicted of crimes, and that it would be a problem if he didn't provide that redemption. He served his time - should people have the right to redemption? 

HAMILTON: Well, of course. But if you believe that, then the convicted rapist that One Nation employed would still be employed. If Barnaby would stand with conviction on his statement and ensure that this man was still employed. But that's not the case. They sacked him. Apparently they sacked him in front of his wife, is what Pauline told everybody, which is extraordinary. So sorry, I've got to push back on that. If that's their position, then they don't have conviction on it. They've rolled over because they've got a few very tough questions put to them. But that's not a position of conviction. That's giving into concerns that you were wrong. 

KARVELAS: Well, this idea of redemption though, Patrick Gorman, this man has now been moved on by One Nation, although obviously it's disturbing. The whole thing is really unsettling, to be honest. But the idea of being - having - the right to redemption for crimes. If you serve your time and then being able to work in the parliament? Do you think the people will have the right, if they've served time, to continue with their lives, including working in the parliament?

GORMAN: I think, generally, we have to recognise that we've had a lot of messages sent to the Parliament that people would like to see us setting very high standards. Indeed, that's the journey the Parliament has been on for a period of time. In that spirit, I commend Garth for setting a high standard. I recognise that some of his colleagues have been saying they need to cosy up more to One Nation and have a three-party coalition of the Liberals, Nationals and One Nation. Garth has chosen what I think is the right path of saying, 'actually, there are serious concerns about the party administration of One Nation, this being just one of them'. I welcome the action he has taken. Clearly, Pauline Hanson agrees with Garth, as that is the decision that she has taken.

KARVELAS: Well, actually, sort of that. I watched her interview on Sky and Garth, in fact, she's very angry with you and thinks you're politicising this. Well you know - devil's advocate here, that's what I do - you kind of are politicising it, aren't you? Because you are at war of One Nation. That's your seat that they're looking to take.

HAMILTON: That may well be an accusation they want to throw at me. I stand by the position I've taken. I think it's an important conversation to have. I've spoken with local women's shelters like they agree very much with the position I have taken. Their concern is that when we allow a tolerance of domestic violence to creep into society, that's when it continues, and that is why a strong stance on these things is important in our society. I think this is something that no one should walk away from, and I think it's an important conversation for Australia. It's a difficult one. It's a very difficult one for us to have, but it is one we need to have. 

KARVELAS: It's been a good panel. Thanks to both of you. 

GORMAN: Thank you.

HAMILTON: Thank you.

ENDS