Television interview - Patricia Karvelas, ABC Afternoon Briefing

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: I want to bring in my political panel for today. Patrick Gorman is the Assistant Employment Minister. Garth Hamilton is the Shadow Assistant Minister for Energy Security. Welcome to both of you. Great to be here. Let's first talk about the potential of sending a ship. Now, we haven't been asked to contribute, but would it be reasonable? I'll start with you, Garth, if we were to participate in such a thing to ensure, of course, the free flow of oil.

GARTH HAMILTON, LIBERAL MEMBER FOR GROOM: Look, I think it's a big question. We'd have to see the details of that first I understand the government's position, it'd be a lot easier to understand the request if we'd been involved in the conversation from day one with our US allies. But that isn't the situation we find ourselves in. But look, this is going to be very important. I hope this doesn't continue on much longer, because obviously this question becomes more pressing the longer this goes on.

KARVELAS: Patrick, is that just a blanket 'no' from the government? Obviously, we haven't been asked. But does the - is the government really reluctant to be part of such an exercise? 
 

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: As your viewers know, we have focused our efforts on defensive actions, to assist friends in the region and to supply to the United Arab Emirates some additional weaponry that they have required. That is where our focus has been. When it comes to speculation on requests that we haven't yet received, for obvious reasons, in the context of the very serious situation that we have in the Middle East, I feel uncomfortable about speculating. But I think your viewers would understand that we are also quite cautious about how we deploy Australian Defence assets, and so that is why we are not proactively sending an asset into the region in the terms as you just heard from Minister King.

KARVELAS: No, not 'proactively.' I hear the 'proactive/reactive.' I know all of the different language, so I'm going to stay with you if I can, Patrick Gorman to say that's right, you're not going out of your way, but if the US really tries to put some pressure on us, they clearly would like as much assistance as they can get. Would that be a different proposition, as an ally?

GORMAN: I feel uncomfortable about speculating about that, other than to note that some of those who are sending assets into the region already have extensive assets much closer to the region than Australia. And we have chosen to focus our efforts on defensive actions to keep civilians safe. That is our focus, and that is where we have chosen to make decisions.

KARVELAS: And on that question, Garth Hamilton, is the government getting that about right? To be, you know, defending our citizens, that's how they frame it, responding to the UAE request, but not going further?

HAMILTON: Look, at this stage, I think Pat's probably got this about right. This is a serious request. This is putting Australians right in direct harm. And before we make that decision, there's a long way we have to go in assessing that risk. So I think he's right not to speculate at this point. I do think it's important we continue to be very, very close to our ally in the US. And obviously the implications for Australia and Australians going about the everyday business is going to get more and more complex as this goes on.

KARVELAS: I want to change the topic to fuel. And fuel, of course, has been the biggest talking point in the country - in the world. Resources Minister Madeleine King says the Australian Government has taken the necessary action to ensure it meets minimum stock holding obligations. Garth, have we? Have we done everything we can?

HAMILTON: Well, I find it very hard when I go out to places in my electorate and try and make that case. Wyreema, just a little bit further outside of Toowoomba, had its petrol station closed down and then rationed when it came back up. I had two petrol stations on Taylor Street in Toowoomba closed down. Try tell people that we've got things under control in that situation, then try to tell them that they're to blame for panic buying. It's pretty hard to panic buy from petrol station that's closed. So I'm not sure we've got that supply issue fully resolved in Australia.

KARVELAS: Okay, that is an issue, Patrick, we have seen in the region some genuine, acute issues. Do you accept that this is now happening in real time in communities across the country?

GORMAN: I have seen the reports, as you and your viewers have, and [inaudible] obviously, what Garth has just shared that his constituents have experienced is obviously not what any of us want to see, because that is where we've seen, either excessive purchasing or challenges in the supply chain. And we are trying to address both of those challenges. One of the decisions we have made is to release some 760 million litres from the strategic reserve so that we do have the fuel that Australians need for their businesses, for their livelihoods, for their families, and we will continue to do that work.

I do not want to sit here and pretend that this is not a challenging time. Of course, it is a challenging time, whether it's at that individual community level, as Garth has just outlined, or in terms of the sort of macroeconomic pressures we see on the supply chains of fuel in Australia.

That is why you have got Minister Bowen, we just saw from Assistant Minister Josh Wilson and the whole Albanese Government working through in different areas, including Minister Madeleine King, working through to make sure that we do have the supplies that we need when people need them. But we have had a huge shock as a result of a war in the Middle East, and so we cannot pretend that that shock didn't happen. What we can do is do all the things necessary to reduce pressure on Australian families.

KARVELAS: Yeah, I mean, the shock did happen, Garth, but how could the government have responded any better than it has?

HAMILTON: Well, we went for two weeks being told that it was just right wing scaremongering. There was the problem to driving, panic buying, told there was absolutely no problem to worry about. And then very late on Thursday last week, deep into question time, Minister Bowen then accepts that we have a national crisis when it comes to fuel, tells us he's going to release the highest sulphur fuel to Australians.

We find out today that for five days, he's sat on his hands and nothing's been done to advance that. Look, I think there was a really clear blueprint for what could have been done, which is what happened in 2021 when one, when we had the AdBlue crisis, and that's where we use worked with the ACCC to make sure that distributors told us what they had in place. We made sure we moved it around so that farmers and truckers were able to keep going. And that doesn't just matter for regional communities. That matters for the cities as well, because all the things that we like to buy and eat come from, grown in the regions.

This was a huge issue that could have been dealt with much quicker than it was. It was dismissed at the start. We've now been told that there's a pathway forward, but nothing's happened on that front yet. So I think there are some criticisms that Minister Bowen does have to face up to right now. I just wanted to get on with it and make sure that we have the fuel moved around Australia that we need. 

KARVELAS: I want to move to another issue. The Iranian women, five have now gone back to Iran after seeking asylum, and there are two remaining. I understand one of them has just spoken on or shared the social media post. Doesn't look at this stage that she's going to leave. So that's the status we're in at the moment on the way this is handled. I'll put to you Patrick Gorman, I spoke a little earlier with Jonno Duniam, who's the shadow minister, who says that it was a mistake for Tony Burke to take that photo with the women that that made the case just too high profile and dangerous for the women. Do you think, with the benefit of hindsight, that was a mistake?

GORMAN: Patricia, I've just lost the end of your question. 

KARVELAS: Okay. Good timing.

GORMAN: But what I would like to say is that obviously it is a very difficult decision -

KARVELAS: Was it a mistake? Let me ask the question though -

GORMAN: All of the players, both those who made the decision to stay and those who made the decision to leave, I think we saw broad acceptance of the way the government had handled this in the period before players were put in a position to make a decision. And that was the important thing for us, is to make sure that people had agency. As difficult as those decisions are, I think we all have to respect the agency of each individual and the decisions that they've made.

KARVELAS: Do you think that settles the issue, Garth?

HAMILTON: I'm not sure it does settle the issue for now and the goodness me, it's with a very heavy heart you see people returning to Iran at this time. I'd like to think that we are a nation that can keep that door open. Obviously, the correct checks and balances need to be made sure, to make sure, keeping us safe, all of those important things.

But look, this was a huge story right around the world, as we saw from President Trump's intervention. I think there probably was a lot of pressure on this government to show that it was doing something probably wasn't Tony Burke's finest moment. I think it was a mistake taking that photo, but I think it was the right thing to do, to open the door. 

KARVELAS: Yeah, but you know, you mentioned Trump. You say it's not his finest moment, don't other people have a responsibility? I mean, your shadow minister, Julian Leeser, put out a statement, Donald Trump intervened - if these women needed lower profile to all of this, so it's not a big issue for the regime, surely, that's a collective effort?

HAMILTON: I'm not sure I've ever seen Tony Burke do something because Julian Leeser told him to. I accept your point, there's a lot of people making comments, but -

KARVELAS: Because they were, right? Was that unwise? Was everyone else making comments unwise as well?

HAMILTON: I think a lot of people felt the strength of their convictions and wanted to see action on this done. And I think ultimately, as I said, I think the government made the right decision by opening the door, but ministers' actions are for the Minister to take.

KARVELAS: Okay, so the minister, the government, was being basically accused, I want to stay with you on this, because they were being accused by Donald Trump of not doing anything. Then Donald Trump tweets about it, rather 'Truth Socials' about it. Sorry, wrong platform. He uses his own now. And then the prime minister is - in some way forces his hand, doesn't it, Garth?

HAMILTON: Look, it may well do. And I think this is something that anyone who accepts the role of Minister has to take on - that responsibility for their actions. And it's a big responsibility. And there's huge weights that get put on you domestically and internationally.

As I say, I think it was the right decision to open the door to these people, but I would hate to think that Australia's actions have led to a change of outcome for these football players. That's the worst thing here. As much as we're talking about politicians, there's some very brave and courageous women who tried to make a big decision, and it would appear that that decision has been reversed, maybe, maybe without their consent. It's hard to see.

KARVELAS: Well, they've, yeah, they've obviously consented, but what pressure they're under, we don't know. Just finally to you on that, Patrick, the kind of level of publicity was very high. Should the government have resisted the pressure to be so public?

GORMAN: I do not think you can avoid the level of publicity that is on the Iranian women's soccer team that was already there. Obviously the important thing for us was to make sure that those players knew the options available to them, and that was done in an incredibly discreet way, as has been well documented. I don't think once a decision had been made that it wouldn't get some level of attention. Just as these more recent decisions have got a large amount of attention.

That is the nature of the open democracy with a free media that we have here in Australia. It's one of the things that makes this a great country, but it's the way that we operate in Australia, with openness and transparency. And of course, there was always going to be interest in this case, however, it was handled. 

KARVELAS: Alright, we're out of time. Thank you to both of you. 

GORMAN: Thank you.