Radio interview with Mel Bampton - ABC Radio Brisbane

MEL BAMPTON, HOST: Now, gone are the days of sending out a handful of job applications or walking in with your paper resume and expecting a bunch of offers. We've heard time and time again on this radio station of job seekers applying for dozens, even hundreds of jobs before getting a start. There is pressure all around to make ends meet, and with reform underway for the employment services sector, how does this nation help workers get a job and then keep it? Patrick Gorman MP - wait for his title - Assistant Minister to the PM, Assistant Minister for the Public Service, Assistant Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, joins you now. Patrick, good morning.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Mel, and good morning to your listeners.

BAMPTON: That is one heck of a title, Patrick. What does an assistant minister to the Prime Minister do?

GORMAN: Well, the way I describe it to my eight year old son, who has sort of taken a bit of an interest in what I do now, is 'I help Anthony so that Anthony can run the country.' That is how I describe it to him. If I was to describe it to your listeners, I would say I think they understand that the Prime Minister has a lot of important responsibilities, but having another minister in the portfolio of Prime Minister and Cabinet to help out with administering things -  and that has everything from the Flags Act to the King's Birthday Honours and the Honours Policy through to the National Australia Day Council, I work across a whole range of those areas and make sure that government runs well.

BAMPTON: Okay, so you're the minister who can take care of prime ministerial duties when Anthony's busy?

GORMAN: Well, sometimes, and I have had a few moments where I have had to duck out of Question Time because we have had some urgent policy matter happening in the Senate, and we have needed to have an official legal decision to make sure that we implement the decisions of the government. Now, of course, the Prime Minister has a fantastic office and an excellent department that support him, but sometimes you need a sworn minister to make the decision.

BAMPTON: How's your job stress levels out of 10, Patrick?

GORMAN: I went for a beautiful walk along the river this morning here in Brizzy, and so I try and do that most mornings to try and keep the stress levels in check. I think also you've got to make sure that you are focused on what you're here to do, and if you're here to make a difference, if you're here to make change, and if you're here to improve people's lives, then there are stressful moments, but that should be a great calling and a great opportunity to make a difference, and so I manage to keep it under control.

BAMPTON: All right. Well, let's talk about what you are here to do. Patrick Gorman, MP, you're in town for the Employment Services Reform Forum. Explain what you're doing.

GORMAN: So, Australia has an employment services system that we have had more or less the same for 30 years, and one of the things that my senior minister in that portfolio, Amanda Rishworth, has kicked off is a conversation where we have said we are determined to fix that broken system.

It has been the same for 30 years. You were just talking, you know, back when this system was designed, people were rocking up with hard copy resumes, they were putting stamps on envelopes and sending them out to employers.

That is not the system we have today, so with Julie-Ann Campbell, the member for Morton, I will be hosting a range of employment services providers and other people who have an interest in making sure we can help more of our fellow Australians into jobs. And we will be having a conversation about how do we fix this system. 

Because what we know is that here in Queensland, some 160,000 people rely on these employment services, and for too many people it's not working for them. So, we have got to change.

BAMPTON: Where do you start, though? In that, I mean, are we talking about just technological changes that meet 2026 or is it deeper than that?

GORMAN: One of the things we know we can do is have a better online service. Some people, if they are just moving between one job and another, they don't need lots of intense in-person services, so we can build a better online service for them. But then there are other people at the other end of the system who have been in the system for years and years, and it's not working for them, and they need more help and more support with intensive services to get ready to go back into the job market. And so we see that there's a full spectrum of services we can offer, but also tailoring them to what individuals need. Now, that also means recognising that the job market in different parts of the country is different, so maybe in some regional towns sending out 20 resumes a fortnight isn't the way to go.

BAMPTON: I'm sure there's people listening who are talking about you improving the quality of the online services, and of course that absolutely has to happen, but I'm sure there's people listening where that sends a layer of tension through their bodies, because it has been very, very difficult. I mean, we've all been very patient, I think with MyGov for a very long time and the systems that sit within that. Understanding and acknowledging that it is a beast of a system, there's a lot of moving parts to that, but what was missing during the toughest times was the quality and the quantity of the in-person engagement, so can I just clarify that what you're saying is that both of those things you're looking to improve?

GORMAN: One hundred per cent. We see that the future model will have three streams: an online stream for those who are really transitioning between one job to the next and just need a little bit of assistance.

What I would say is more traditional targeted provider services, being Stream Two, that is where people might get assistance with resumes or finding a bit of transitional training to get into the next job.

And then for those who are furthest from the labour market, people who might have been out of work for three or more years, sort of intensive services, where maybe the first step isn't going and applying for a job. Maybe the first step is building up your confidence to go and apply for that job, it's about building up your skills and recognising the strengths that you might have. And we have some good programs that already work in that model, so we want to take those further.

And we also want to hear from people. There is a public consultation happening at the moment. People can go in and put in their submissions, because we recognise that this is a service funded by the Australian people, for the Australian people, and Australians love to work. We love all of the social benefits of going to work. It is often where people meet their sometimes their best friends or their future partners.

Giving people the opportunity to have a fulfilling job, I think, is one of the great things that we can help more Australians into. But I will go back to where I started, which is; we know that the system designed 30 years ago is broken, and I'm sure many of your listeners, if they've engaged in that employment services system, would recognise that we can do so much better, and that's what we want to do.

BAMPTON: I think there's going to be a lot of people who are just happy to hear you say that. Patrick Gorman MP, Assistant Minister to the PM, is with us this morning at 612 ABC Brisbane. It's five to nine. Let's come to some of those figures. Patrick, there are one million jobseekers accessing employment services under Workforce Australia. A substantial share have been in the system for years, as you've mentioned. Twenty per cent according to the Financial Review, that's a big figure. How do we start getting those people into a job today? Reform takes time. What can happen for those people who are listening now, long-term unemployed, desperate to have a better financial foundation beneath them?

GORMAN: Again, if I think about those figures and I break it down into that sort of people who have been in the system for about five years or more, it's around about 32,000 people here in Queensland, and so I do want them to have a better system.

One of the other pieces we have suggested is that we will have an employment goal plan, where when people come into the system, we will talk to them about what is their goal, what is it that they want to do? So that we can then put them towards the services that will take them towards that goal.

And we see this connecting through to some of the other initiatives that we've put in place with our government, where we have made it easier for people to get the skills into the careers they want. Our Free TAFE program has been a huge success across the country.

It has meant that we are funding Free TAFE programmes for courses where we know there are skill shortages. So we are not saying 'get the qualification and good luck with the job.' We are saying 'get the qualification, because we know there's a job at the end.'

So we can connect these things much more carefully. And again, I think having services that really focus on where someone is at and giving them the scaffolding and support to get to where they need to get to, makes a difference.

BAMPTON: It's great to hear those soft skills being recognised, which I believe is what you're really talking about, is how that we get the person ready for the employment rather than demanding a person goes into a job or a situation that they're really not ready for. There's a whole lot of skills there that need to be filling the gaps. Reform takes time, though, Minister. So, what would be your ideal to get some of these reforms really steadily underway? 

GORMAN: We put some money in the budget, and there was about $300 million in the budget to start building some of the new services and to start some trials this calendar year. So, Minister Rishworth is currently getting those all up and running, but we recognise it will take a bit of time. The current contracts have a period of time to go, but we really see that over the next two or so years we can transform this system and make sure that it helps more Australians.

And also get better value for taxpayers too, because we do want employment to be the goal, we want people to come into this system and feel that it's going to help them get a job, not just help them do pointless box-ticking exercises.

BAMPTON: Again, I'm sure there's a lot of people who feel a relief in that and can't wait to see that useless box ticking exercises off their list and getting into some really meaningful employment. Patrick Gorman MP, is with you this morning on 612 ABC Brisbane.

Minister, I want to just get to an address that you are delivering today at the McKell Institute. I've had a little glance at the speech, and there's a message in there about working together as a community to dampen political criticism. What do you mean?

GORMAN: What I see is that we all have a role to take responsibility. In a democracy, it is not just the politicians, or indeed the media, who have a responsibility. It is every citizen. And that, and I think we see that in our day-to-day lives. You see people who will step up and be the designated driver, people who'll step up and volunteer for the SES.

I think that vibe of people taking responsibility for the community in which we all operate. And that means how we talk to one another, it means sometimes going for our - and I quoted Robert Menzies, which is not something I regularly do, he's on the other side of the political spectrum to me - but it means going for some of our more 'noble emotions,' not our 'ignoble' emotions, as Menzies put it -

BAMPTON: We are caught in a bit of a loop, though, aren't we, Patrick, where we'd like people to not be criticising others so much, so, and take us more responsibility for them, but when everybody's sort of saying the same thing, we never, we never, you know, break the circuit?

GORMAN: I would say that you do sometimes see - and sometimes it is behind the scenes of parliament and things - you see people often treat one another with a lot more civility in person than they maybe do when we're talking to each other down the tube on television and other things.

But also it's about saying, 'well, we are all here to serve the public.' I'm proud to be part of a government that's focused on actually delivering for people, and that's what I would like to see, whatever people's political persuasion.

BAMPTON: Patrick Gorman, MP. Thank you so much for your time today. It's been great to chat with you.

GORMAN: Thanks, Mel.

ENDS