Interview with Tom Connell - Sky News Afternoon Agenda

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Joining me now the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. Thanks for your time. Look, on net zero, there's a lot of broad support for it, but the idea itself is something we only know broadly about. I mean, Barnaby Joyce talks about regional areas - so let's say there's a cattle farmer out there right now in his electorate. They don't have any real idea exactly what they'll be asked to do by 2030 or 2035, do they?

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: We have got different industries making different contributions in different ways. The bill that that cattle farmer's local member, Barnaby Joyce, is putting into the parliament is simply to axe action that is happening and is working. We saw data out from Chris Bowen today that shows that we have reduced carbon emissions by some six and a half million tonnes. The work that Barnaby Joyce is seeking to do will axe all of that and take us backwards -

CONNELL: - But in terms of what that cattle farmer can compare - so you said you'll scrap that. Will that farmer have to reduce their emissions when the 2035 target is announced, it's so much higher - is there going to be some mechanism to make them reduce emissions or not?

GORMAN: I would say to that cattle farmer that if they had concerns about Australia signing up to net zero, they should have raised it with their local member, Barnaby Joyce, when he was Deputy Prime Minister, when Australia signed up to it - 

CONNELL: [inaudible] 

GORMAN: - when it comes to, whether it be your hypothetical cattle farmer, or anyone in Australia, there is support for those hard to abate industries. We have seen that through the work that we are doing, through the Net Zero Economy Authority, which is one of the bodies that Barnaby Joyce is seeking to abolish, we have seen the support that is there for industries through some of the programs we have put forward. Including some of the energy transition work that - if you are running a big cattle farm, energy is a big challenge, and making sure that you have got the energy that you need, or the ability to transition your farm to more sustainable, and often in those farms, more reliable forms of energy - 

CONNELL: Right. But that's the carrot form. And when we go all the way up to 2030 if we're going to be net zero emissions overall, by 2050 - 

GORMAN: [inaudible] 

CONNELL: - farming will have to play its part. So, is there going to be a point where there'll have to be a mechanism where they don't get a choice, they have to reduce emissions? 

GORMAN: Where we are seeking to legislate for reduced emissions, it is for those big emitters, and that is what we have done through the Safeguard Mechanism. That bill is out there for everyone to see. It is not focused on those -

CONNELL: But will it need to be ultimately, if we're going to be net zero? 

GORMAN: What we know is there are some emissions, including some from the cattle sector, that are harder to abate than others, and that is what we are always at pains to point out. And I point this out to Barnaby Joyce and anyone else who is watching. It is net zero, not zero. We recognise there are other farmers, possibly in other parts of the great election of New England, who are also creating the sorts of products that will make sure that we can reduce -

CONNELL: - there's all sorts of things, like better feed to mean they burn lower methane. But question has to be, ultimately, when the type is a lot higher, will they be made to - anyway. Housing, so the latest announcement more about or the one today, is obviously all about demand. What about supply? The minister was talking about the 1.2 million home goal as an aspiration and good to have ambition. Is it still a target? Is it still a goal? Is this still you saying you will do this or will try to do this?

GORMAN: It is still our target, and it is okay for governments to be ambitious. I think what we saw for a decade was governments that were not ambitious when it came to housing. We are ambitious. I was at a new social housing project in my electorate, which is a good mix of social, affordable and private rentals on Pier Street, some 219 of them. The Treasurer and the Prime Minister and others, kicked it off last year. It is now being built. We were standing up there on level 12. It has got about another 10 levels to go. We are determined to build more homes for Australians. You can see the scale of our ambition by the scale of the investment. 

CONNELL: Does that $43 billion - 'it's okay to be ambitious', is that saying, 'if we miss the target, we still did our best?' Is that what that's saying effectively?

GORMAN: This is about trying to get all levels of government plus the private sector together to do what needs to be done. 

CONNELL: It feels like expectation management. 

GORMAN: Tom I think if you have watched some of your colleagues, or even some parts of your own program over the last few hours, a few days, you say there is a lot of ambition. If you look at what we have said around the building code, if you look at what we have said -

CONNELL: So as of now, you think you'll still meet that target, 1.2 million? 

GORMAN: We put incentives to the states and territories that meet that target - 

CONNELL: That's not answering the question, do you think you will still meet the target? 

GORMAN: I hope we do. And everything I'm doing and everything my colleagues are doing is to meet that target, but also to make sure that we keep building more homes for Australians.

CONNELL: There they are, the lovely [inaudible]. Sorry, I want to get to one more topic - 

GORMAN: Sure. 

CONNELL: - so that was my really neat pivot. Intergenerational fairness. So Jim Chalmers said at the outset of the Economic Roundtable, everything has to be budget neutral. Can't afford to have the budget in worse shape. He wants to decrease taxes on working Australians. You have to get that money from somewhere, don't you? Could that mean some form of bigger impost on retirees?

GORMAN: What we are looking at is, how do we make sure we have got the policy settings right for today and tomorrow? Now in terms of tax reductions, we do have two tax reductions coming over the next two years. In terms of what we say we need to do, the big focus of that Economic Reform Roundtable was productivity growth. We know that is going to make a big difference to the sorts of opportunities that future generations have. We will keep looking at the ideas that were put to us at that Roundtable. We have already adopted a few, as I was just talking about, when it comes to housing, which is a big part of that intergenerational fairness question. It is not just about tax and transfer, it is also about how do you use the power of government to make sure you can supply the things that people need - 

CONNELL: - Alright. But I mean, Labor's basically said no to the GST. And that you want to lower taxes to young people and not have the budget worse off. You have to, if you're going to do all those things, increase the overall tax impost in some way on retirees, don't you? 

GORMAN: We are going to look at what needs to be done. When it comes to the sorts of options that have been put to us. There have been some suggestions put forward by Productivity Commission. We will look at those. 

CONNELL: Would taking them to an election be - ?

GORMAN: We had the Treasurer out yesterday talking about the measures we have got to make sure Superannuation is more sustainable for the long term. We had Minister Mark Butler out last week talking about, how do we make sure that important parts of our services that people expect, such as the National Disability Insurance Scheme, are sustainable for the long term. There is a lot of things to look at. We will do that in a orderly, measured way, as you would expect for the Albanese Government. 

CONNELL: Patrick Gorman, thank you for your time. 

GORMAN: Thank you, Tom. 
 

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