Interview - Patricia Karvelas, ABC Afternoon Briefing

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Welcome to the programme.  

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Thanks Patricia, great to be here. 

KARVELAS: The Government has been a bit quiet this week. Is the Government kind of on strike because Liberal Party is eating itself? 

GORMAN: I don't think you can make that argument at all. We had the Prime Minister out on Monday talking about our world leading social media ban. We had the Prime Minister hosting the President of Indonesia with a landmark treaty. We have also had, as you just read out, the Attorney-General doing a really important piece of work of getting that national Working With Children Check. We have been focused on delivery. That is what we are always focused on. What's happening on the other side? Well, that's for them to explain. And as we just heard from my good friend, Jason Falinski, they are struggling to explain what they are up to. 

KARVELAS: I want to talk about the figures that came out yesterday. The unemployment rate has gone down to 4.3 per cent on yesterday's figures. Now, you're going to say that's a good result. And, of course, lower unemployment is fantastic for people looking for jobs. There's no discussion around that. But it does, however, show the economy is running very tight, perhaps hotter than we thought, doesn't it?

GORMAN: What it shows is that people are able to get a job, and that is a good thing. You are always going to hear from a Labor Government a celebration of people being able to get into work and have all of those benefits of work. The other good piece of data that we saw in those unemployment figures was under employment, now that's down to a 30 year low. Again, showing that people who might have been wanting to work a bit more, to get a little bit more money, maybe do a few extra hours, that they're able to get that work as well. So it is welcome. Obviously, we know that there are still people out there doing it tough.  And we recognise that there are businesses who are still struggling to get the workers that they need to help grow our economy. 

KARVELAS:  Sure. But the unemployment, I mean, this is obviously economics 101, the unemployment rate has implications for inflation, it does have implications also for interest rates. Doesn't it just provide further evidence that we're going to have a hard time getting lower interest rates in this country?

GORMAN:  We are pretty happy that we've seen three interest rate cuts this year. That has been welcome news for millions of Australians with mortgages, and for those who run small businesses who might also have business loans. It's good news. But also I'm not going to apologise for our determination to keep unemployment low. Because that means that people who want to work can get a job, and combined with our tax cuts and our work to lift up the minimum wage, people are earning more and keeping more of what they earn.

KARVELAS: Sure, but in terms of cost of living, if this is the lowest interest rates will get, and that is something that economists, Deputy Governor of the Reserve Bank, warned it could be the case. Is this as good as it gets? Is this good enough? Given the cost of living constraints people are under, that people are servicing mortgages at this level?

GORMAN: I never believe that you can say anything is as good as it gets. I always believe there's more work to do. Once you deal with one challenge, you move on to the next thing. If we're talking about the pressures in the economy, obviously what we did have not that long ago - if I was sitting here talking to you - we would have been talking about where we had inflation running at above 6 per cent. We have now, because of some very careful economic management, been able to get inflation down while keeping unemployment down. Now, that's not easy. You look to our friends in other G20 countries that look at our numbers and go 'gee, I wish ours looked like that'. But we'll keep looking at everything we need to do to make sure that we put downward pressure on inflation, but keep people in jobs. Because that's how they pay for their bills. It's how they enjoy all the great things about living in Australia, and it's how they pay their mortgages.

KARVELAS: The CFMEU has been in the headlines again, as you know. Do you need to look at more measures, more serious industrial relations reform and legislation to help address what's happening at the CFMEU? Shouldn't there be a wholesale reform to prevent the gradual clean out and the firing people one by one from the union that we're seeing, this kind of very slow approach?

GORMAN: Let's be clear, this Government backs the work the administrator is doing. I know that some in other political parties have sought to undermine that work. We back the administrator, which has seen some more than 300 people lose their positions within the CFMEU. There are a range of inquiries underway, because of referrals from our Government. And, this is actually doing what didn't happen under the previous Government. They had the ABCC. It didn't deal with these issues. Many of these issues started during that time that the ABCC was supposed to be out there looking at things, and it wasn't doing that job. So we'll keep backing the administrator to clean up that union, because I don't believe there's any place for intimidation or criminal activity anywhere in the construction sector.

KARVELAS: You mentioned the administrator, and criticism from the Liberal Party. Tim Wilson specifically, has been pretty hard line on this. If the administrator is losing that bipartisan support, isn't that a problem for your Government? I mean, you need to have a sense that the, you know, two main parties of government do trust the system, trust the administrator and the work they're doing. 

GORMAN: I think that's more a question to put to Tim Wilson about why he's taken that approach, when it's clear the administrator is doing the work that they were sent to do by the Parliament. And, that is the work of getting those who should not have any role in that union out the door, making appropriate referrals to various law enforcement agencies at a state and federal level, and doing the work the parliament set. 

KARVELAS:  Just finally, obviously, we all know, and we've been covering it extensively, that the Liberal Party has now officially dumped the net zero by 2050 commitment. They say they want to reduce emissions, they want to stay in Paris, but they're taking a very different approach. There was that piece of polling that came out earlier this week, which was published in the nine papers, which showed that there is a softening of support for net zero by 2050. Isn't that the risk of high electricity prices continuing, that you are losing support for net zero and that that might continue to wane?

GORMAN: Well, firstly, let me congratulate Barnaby Joyce on his de facto leadership of the Liberal party. When it comes to what we've seen in a range of reports and what we've seen from what people told us at the recent election; Australians want to see action on climate. They have seen the benefits of - and household rooftop solar is one great example where people have seen the personal economic benefits, and being able to do something to reduce emissions. There is a lot more of that opportunity in the years ahead, and we know that we do need to get more energy into our grids across the country, and the cheapest and fastest way to do that is by getting more firm renewables into the system. That is the best path for Australia. It is in the national interest. That is why it is what our Government is pursuing. And I know that Australians want to see sensible climate action. The only party offering them that -

KARVELAS: - They do, but they are clearly concerned about energy prices, that is a thing that is going on, and, if we're seeing a reduction in support for net zero, that could spell trouble for you, couldn't it?

GORMAN: We know that we've got to work in reality, and the reality is the cheapest additional energy we can get into our grids is renewable energy. We are proud of the work that we've done, opposed by the Liberal Party. Sussan Ley opposed it.  But we had that work that we did to get energy bill rebates to provide some immediate cost of living relief. But we have got to do the big picture stuff as well, and that's what we are doing.

KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us. 

GORMAN: Thank you.