Interview with Nadia Mitsopoulos - ABC Perth

NADIA MITSOPOULOS, HOST: It is quarter to nine on 102.5 ABC Perth and right across WA and I have with me in the studio Patrick Gorman, who of course is the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Public Service and Employment and also Workplace Relations. Good morning. Nice to see you again.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good to see you, Nadia, and hello to all of your listeners.

MITSOPOULOS: Just a couple of things and in fact, if I could just start with some breaking news that's just come out. And that is that Optus is being sued in the Federal Court over last year's major network outage, where hundreds of calls failed to reach Triple Zero. Now, ACMA, which is the Australian Communications and Media Authority, says that Optus breached two legal obligations more than 1,000 times and that included making sure customers who made emergency calls had access to the emergency call service and to ensure those calls were carried appropriately. How do you react to this news? Because this is quite significant.

GORMAN: I welcome the action that the Australian Communications and Media Authority have taken to make sure that Optus is held to account. I shared the outrage of millions of Australians when they couldn't reach those essential services when Optus had that outage in September last year. I was very critical of Optus at the time. And of course, what we know is that Triple Zero is not an optional service, it's an essential lifesaving service. And unfortunately, in the case of Optus’s failures, we did see some really sad losses of life as a result of their failures.

And so what happens today is – in the start of this case, obviously can't undo that terrible harm that's been caused, but it can make sure that there is some form of justice for all of those Optus customers who are so badly let down. And of course, I note that our government in the months following legislated additional protections to make sure that Triple Zero is there for Australians to make sure they can get the essential service that they need.

MITSOPOULOS: And there's been talk about whether somehow the government can take back control of Triple Zero and run the Triple Zero service because it is an essential service. Is there merit in that?

GORMAN: Well, these are highly regulated companies, our telecommunications companies. And what we expect is, that they do the baseline first. And that means making sure that Triple Zero is available. Of course, we will do the bit that government can do, but these network operators can't push their responsibilities onto others – 

MITSOPOULOS: Is there a way, though, that the Government could take over control of Triple Zero?

GORMAN: The Government can legislate the obligations that apply to those who run telecommunications companies. We have done that. We have increased the legislative expectations on telecommunications companies to ensure that that service is there for all Australians when they need it.

MITSOPOULOS: Patrick Gorman is my guest this morning at twelve minutes to nine. A couple of other things, we were listening earlier, well, to Pat Conroy who was on 7.30 last night, saying that Submarine Rotation Force – West now has a five-year time limit on it. So, it'll end in 2032 and that's those Virginia Class US submarines rotating through HMAS Stirling. Why is there a time limit on it? That's taken a few people by surprise.

GORMAN: It is a significant project that will start next year. It is about making sure that we have that transfer of knowledge and capability for the Australian Navy, to make sure that they can operate nuclear-powered submarines. Owned and operated by Australia. Now this has been a big project where we've had to do a lot of work in terms of legislative underpinning both in Australia and in the United States Congress. And this is just one part of that big AUKUS project.

What we expect at the conclusion of the rotations is that we will then be in a position where Australia ourselves will be in possession of a Virginia-class nuclear-powered submarine. By the time that we have that in our possession, we will be owning and operating it ourselves. And we'll have that knowledge to make sure that we can continue to upskill our own defence forces.

MITSOPOULOS: Is there maybe also a message being sent here down the track that nuclear-armed submarines are not welcome in WA or Australia?

GORMAN: What we know is that for decades we've had exchanges where the United States Navy have visited Australia. United Kingdom Navy have visited Australia. I grew up in Fremantle. It was a very common sight to see those big US ships in Fremantle Harbour. That is not something that is new or unusual. I think, as your last guest was talking about, obviously, during World War II it was Western Australian, Member for Fremantle and Prime Minister John Curtin who helped forge what is now called the ANZUS alliance that connects us to the United States and our friends in New Zealand as well. We see that this is an ongoing piece of work, but where does it all lead? Where it all leads – and I want your listeners to know this, all of this AUKUS work leads to Australia being able to build submarines and Australia being able to own and operate our own submarines. And that is what it's all about.

MITSOPOULOS: And that's not the United States' priority though. And there is genuine concern that it could be regarded as a de facto US base, particularly if there ends up being a conflict with China in the Indo-Pacific. That's a fair enough anxiety that people would have.

GORMAN: I understand in a democracy like Australia, people should ask all of those questions. I would say that when it comes to the Australian Government, we seek to build a peaceful and prosperous Pacific and Indo-Pacific. And when it comes to the question about foreign bases on Australian soil, it's been a long-standing bipartisan position that that is not supported.

MITSOPOULOS: A couple of other things, Patrick Gorman. The fuel excise will end. The rebate - or the discount - on the fuel excise will end on Sunday. Do you concede that this would be unpopular, that maybe there are a lot of people out there that would like to see it last a little longer?

GORMAN: I am really pleased that we took action, really fast action, at the time when we saw those big spikes in fuel prices as the start of this awful conflict between the United States and Iran kicked off. But we were also really clear at the time that it would be a temporary measure to deal with the immediate shock.

What we have done since is, of course, rolled into more ongoing pieces of support. And I particularly note the tax cuts that came in on 1 July that do provide ongoing cost-of-living relief for motorists. We know that global conflicts around the world have been driving up prices here at home in Perth. That is the truth. And it's been a real challenge for businesses and for households. We will continue to do what we can to provide sensible cost-of-living relief. And of course, I do welcome the work that the state government's done when it comes to the fuel tax relief that they've also provided.

MITSOPOULOS: But is there a way, I mean, was it discussed to try and extend this for a little bit longer, even if it was just for people who needed it? You know, you have data that shows, you know, people on concessions and those kind of things that could probably do with a discount was maybe that's something you could have looked at, at least providing some targeted relief at the bowser for those who needed it?

GORMAN: We did discuss it, Nadia, and the reason that I – your listeners know that we did discuss – is that indeed for July, we extended at a lower rate, we extended that relief for an additional month beyond what was originally planned. And the reason we did that is for exactly the reasons that you outlined, is that we knew that people were still dealing with those pressures in fuel prices.

But we also have to accept that some of these temporary measures – and we've seen that in other areas as well. They can't go on forever. And that's unfortunate. But it's the reality if we're going to be responsible about the work that we need to do to run a responsible budget. And that is why transitioning to some of the other forms of financial assistance, such as ongoing tax relief, is a better path to go forward.

MITSOPOULOS: Are you worried about price gouging? Are we going to see some big jumps come Monday, Tuesday, aren't we?

GORMAN: I would say that I would expect all of those fuel companies to act with the same level of commitment to their customers as they have in earlier periods of this conflict. Where they were looking to make sure that they were securing supply and treating their customers with respect. I expect that to continue. I jumped on FuelWatch this morning and I know there's sort of pretty big range of prices at the moment between about $1.79 and $2.05 in my electorate.

MITSOPOULOS: Some are hitting over $2 again. 

GORMAN: So of course I encourage motorists to shop around. To use FuelWatch, a great asset we've got here in Western Australia, to make sure people can get the best price. Sometimes, you know, people shopping around is the best way to make sure they're getting a fair deal.

MITSOPOULOS: My guest this morning at six minutes to nine is Patrick Gorman, the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Public Service as well as Employment and Workplace Relations. There's a bit going on this morning. Your timing to be in the studio is pretty good. One Nation has announced that it will introduce new laws to federal parliament to ban Islamic State linked fighters and terrorist sympathisers from returning to Australia. And of course that comes after news that Perth born, Tareq Kamleh, has links to Islamic State, is actually alive and in an Iraqi prison after it was thought he was dead. Would the Government support a bill like that to prevent these people from coming back to Australia?

GORMAN: Well, firstly, I want your listeners to know we will do nothing to assist these individuals. They have made shocking life decisions that really do not sit in any way consistent with Australian values. I won't lift a finger for them. What we have done is to act with all of the constitutional powers available to us to make sure that where people do return, they face the full force of the law. That is what we can do. The laws that we currently have in place go to the absolute limits of constitutional ability in terms of what we can do.

MITSOPOULOS: So, you're saying the constitution means we cannot ban these people if they were born in Australia from coming home? 

GORMAN: Australian citizens. There are restrictions on what we can do, and we've been really consistent. And you can see that where people have returned and they have committed crimes abroad that are crimes against Australian law, then we have taken action and will continue to do so. There's no sympathy from this government for these individuals. As for – 

MITSOPOULOS: So you'll say this ban, this bill that she'll introduce would constitutionally not be legal.

GORMAN: What I am saying is that the current laws that currently exist go to the absolute limits and give us all the powers possible under the Constitution. Now, as for Senator Hanson's bill, which she hasn't really passed around amongst the Parliament, I'm sure she'll get on the phones and call every member of Parliament to tell us why we should be looking at her bill. But I'll just say this, when it comes to Senator Hanson, you want to get a bill through the Parliament, you have to turn up to Parliament. If you look at her attendance rate in Parliament, it's shocking.

MITSOPOULOS: Even so, she's got support and she's, you know, according to Wayne Swan, she's a bigger threat to Labor than the Coalition.

GORMAN: Yeah, but if you want to, you know, if you want to get a bill through Parliament, you have to turn up. Senator Hanson has missed 88 per cent of committee hearings over the last little period of time. 88 per cent. Now, that is a pretty poor attendance rate if you're missing 88 per cent of committee hearings that you're supposed to do as a Senator. And Senators are supposed to do a lot of committee hearings.

Having said all of that, I accept, it is a contest between the Labor Party as the only remaining sensible, practical party, against the Liberal Party, the National Party and the One Nation, who are now all swapping preferences amongst one another. All working together. Even Senator Hanson says that Angus Taylor has stolen some of her policies.

MITSOPOULOS: Now, before I let you go, Australian of the Year. I'm involved with this. I know you're involved with this as the Minister responsible, but nominations closing soon. Who should be nominated for these awards?

GORMAN: Well, firstly, don't nominate yourself and don't nominate a politician. They are my two big tips. I encourage your listeners to nominate an Australian for the Australian of the Year awards. We have only had two Western Australians win that award in this century. That is Craig Challen and Dr. Fiona Wood.

MITSOPOULOS: So you're looking for another WA winner?

GORMAN: Oh, I always want a WA winner.

MITSOPOULOS: But do they have to be famous?

GORMAN: No, they don't have to be famous. They have to be someone who is demonstrating the absolute best of Australia. Someone who's got great Australian values. Is out there helping their fellow Australians. And importantly, any Australian can nominate anyone. Just go to Australianoftheyear.org.au. It takes five minutes. You can do it on the bus. You can do it on the train. You can do it on your lunch break. And it's a great way to do something good for Australia.

MITSOPOULOS: How long have they got for nominations?

GORMAN: Nominations close tomorrow at 10 o'clock our time, 10pm Australian Western Standard Time.

MITSOPOULOS: So you've got another day. You can do it. It literally takes five minutes.

GORMAN: Literally takes five minutes. And it'll make you feel good to support a fellow Australian.

MITSOPOULOS: And I'll see you for the award ceremony on the 31st of October.

GORMAN: See you there.

MITSOPOULOS: Patrick Gorman, thank you for coming in. Good to see you.

GORMAN: Thanks, Nadia.