Television interview with Tom Connell - Sky News Afternoon Agenda

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Well, plenty of speculation, we are three weeks until the budget. Capital gains tax - are there changes there? What about productivity? Jim Chalmers has still said that's a driving force in this budget. Joining me is Skills and Training Minister Andrew Giles. Is this something big in your area? Because we've got to, you know, improve skills, productivity - it seems to be a good fit. Is there still room for new spending in this area? 

ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Well, I'm obviously not going to talk about the budget, Tom. But in terms of productivity and human capital, giving more Australians more access to skills, that's what my portfolio is all about. Free TAFE has been an absolute revelation in that regard - 742,000 Australians have embraced that opportunity. And I can give some good news to you and your listeners - when it comes to apprentices, the people building Australian houses, we've had 22,103 commencements since our Key Apprenticeship Program in housing began in July last year. So skilling up Australians to make that contribution, but also to boost Labor productivity, is absolutely fundamental. 

CONNELL: Twenty-two thousand commencements. How does that compare? How much is that going to boost things? Because the number we keep here is we're at least 80,000 tradies short. 

GILES: Look, there isn't one silver bullet to this. What we saw when we came into government was Australia had its worst skills crisis in 50 years and, in fact, the second worst across every advanced economy. We know we've got a long way to go. Free TAFE, as I say, has been a really important step, putting in place the National Skills Agreement after a decade of not having an agreement. Because, as I'm sure you appreciate, so much of this is the responsibility of the states as well as National Government. So having all Australian governments pulling in one direction is fundamental. The focus on housing, especially important too. 

CONNELL: Is it fair to say- so not only is there Free TAFE but incentive payments as well to those become qualified and for bosses to hire them if you're working in housing construction? Do they all need to stay in place, even in a tight budget environment, given we're still short on tradies? 

GILES: Well, we need to look at what's working. And when it comes to-

CONNELL: [Interrupts] Are all those elements I spoke about working in your view?

GILES: I think they are. Look at 22,103 - that's not a bad number in nine months. And the investment - $10,000 for the apprentice paid over the life of the apprenticeship, not in one hit - to encourage not just starting but completing, which has been a long-running challenge in Australia. Five thousand for the employer, because most of the employers in building construction in housing are small businesses. So, that extra help-

CONNELL: [Interrupts] So, those elements will stay? They’re not going to be cut in the budget?

GILES: Well, these are matters that exist right now, so I'll speak about what's currently on the books which is currently committed to it. 

CONNELL: But there's no indication that they’re- this searching for savings, you're saying we need tradies, building housing is sort of top of the agenda, but they wouldn't go, those programs? 

GILES: We've been pretty clear in saying that building homes for Australians is a priority for this Government. It has been from the get-go, it's been supercharged in recent times. Obviously, a big part of that is having the skilled labour available and making sure that it's deployed to building houses too. 

CONNELL: What increase in that is that over nine months? 

GILES: Well, it's 22,103. 

CONNELL: But can you compare it to the previous year? 

GILES: It is a bit tricky. What we have seen is a long-run decline in apprenticeships across the board, probably going back to about 2012. There was a big change when it comes to traineeships during the COVID era when the BAC-and-CAC, Hamburger University incentives like that ran out. What we are seeing is a pick-up and I guess what's particularly interesting in this area is we've seen in in this program, in the program that's modelled on - the New Energy Apprenticeships program - really encouraging retention. So, not just getting people to start but getting them to the end of the apprenticeship. For every qualified tradesperson, the MBA tells us that's 2.4 homes being built. 

CONNELL: Okay. But that figure, if it's annualised, is what? Twenty-seven something. How does that compare to the last completed year? 

GILES: It's a pick-up. 

CONNELL: How much? 

GILES: It is a pick-up.

CONNELL: A thousand extra, 10,000 extra – what?

GILES: It's an increase on the past figure, and it's something we've got to build on. As well as [indistinct]-

CONNELL: But, if you’ve go an 80,000 shortfall, 27,000 a year, and it sounds like it's a relatively small pick-up - is that fair to say?

GILES: It's a really- it's not a huge pick-up, but it is an increase. 

CONNELL: [Talks over] But if you’re going to address [indistinct]…

GILES: It's an increase in the face of a long-running decline. 

CONNELL: [Talks over] Sure. So, you're saying it's getting better. 

GILES: So, we’re turning this around.

CONNELL: But if you're so far short on tradies, I just feel like another lever needs to be pulled. So, what about more skilled migrants, or within the overall skilled stream being allowed in? Because it's 1.8 per cent. 

GILES: Yeah. 

CONNELL: …and we need houses built. Could we increase that? 

GILES: It's been a significant increase under this Government. As I think we've spoken about before, around 11,000 construction visas being granted. To solve this problem it's about doing absolutely everything - the things that are within the Commonwealth Government's responsibility, in skills and training in particular; obviously working with the states and working with local government too. Planning's obviously a huge issue as well. 

CONNELL: But on that tradie number, so 80,000 short, is that a fair figure to say? 

GILES: Well, yeah, that's roughly what we're talking about. 

CONNELL: So, in terms of boosting numbers maybe there's a few thousand a year when you're giving Free TAFE and incentive payments. We can’t - It seems like we're getting as many Australians as we can and we're still well short. So, doesn't that mean you need to do more? I understand you're saying we've let more tradies in, but if we wanted we could get 40,000 in, couldn't we? Why not do that? 

GILES: Well again, you'd have to look at the modelling to see whether there are 40,000 people out there with the skills that we need that meet Australian standards, and which also have the English language requirements. One of the things-

CONNELL: [Interrupts] But there'd be more than we're letting in, surely?

GILES: Well yeah, but there's a few things we've got to do here. One of them, which is a bit of work that was undertaken since we've come into Government, is to look at how we can get skills assessments done more quickly - we've had a real focus on that. In the last budget, we invested about $2 million to get quicker assessment of the skills of people who've come here with construction-related skills. 

Another really significant announcement in this area, which I was going to touch on a minute ago, is the Advanced Entry Trades Training program. This is about investing in- working with the states to make sure that people who may have been working perhaps as a trades assistant or a labourer, who've picked up a lot of the competencies but don't have the formal qualifications, to get them-

CONNELL: [Interrupts] Overseas, you're saying? 

GILES: No, in Australia. These are Australians. These are Australians. We think there can be 6,000 out there who can be more quickly pushed through to have those qualifications recognised to the high standards that Australians are entitled to expect. Again, just another example of being prepared to do absolutely everything to meet this challenge.

CONNELL: [Talks over] So, you're trying to get more migrants as tradies? Is that fair to say, that you're trying to increase the [indistinct]…

GILES: [Talks over] Well, we'd like the mix to be focused on Australian skills needs. That is the…

CONNELL: [Talks over] I understand that, but we've spoken about sort of the-

GILES: …and that’s a big part of it. And obviously there are other areas of skill needs too with nursing, doctors. But obviously, construction is an absolute focus. This program, apprenticeship, providing for 20,000 Free TAFE places solely in construction is another initiative. Six thousand advanced entry trades training, again for Australians to get them more quickly through. Again, it's about doing absolutely everything because there isn't a silver bullet here. 

CONNELL: You can tell them all they'll actually have a job once AI kicks in too. Maybe that'll get them over the line. 

GILES: Well, that's something that I've been hearing a lot. I remember I spoke to a plumbing apprentice who had been a Pilates teacher. He told me that AI won't be digging a hole any time soon. I think that was pretty persuasive. 

CONNELL: Yeah, no - it's got me listening. Andrew Giles, appreciate your time. Thank you.