Radio interview with Kim Napier - ABC Northern Tasmania Breakfast
KIM NAPIER, HOST: We’re going to play a straight bat here, whether it's building homes, wiring new developments or caring for an ageing population, one thing keeps coming up in conversations across Tassie: we need more skilled workers. The Federal Government says it's making progress with hundreds of Tasmanian apprentices supported through its Key Apprenticeship Program and almost 10,000 Free TAFE enrolments across the state in the past three years. The Federal Skills Minister has been meeting apprentices, employers and students in Launnie to see those programs in action and joins us now. Good morning to Minister Andrew Giles.
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Good morning, Kim. Great to be talking with you.
NAPIER: Thank you. Almost 700 Tasmanian apprentices have been supported through the Key Apprenticeship Program. What's the early evidence that these financial incentives are leading to more apprentices finishing their training or indeed just signing up?
GILES: The signs are really good. This program's focused on housing skills, but it builds on an earlier program that was more addressing clean energy skills. And what we've seen in that is really encouraging evidence, not just about people starting, but more importantly, finishing their apprenticeship, which has been a long run challenge we've been grappling with in Australia. It’s been really fantastic not just to see the numbers, which are encouraging, but to talk to apprentices like Xander, who I spoke with about six months ago when he was starting, to talk about what the $2,000 he's going to get at six months, at 12 months and so on, what a difference that makes. Because we know apprenticeship wages are pretty low. We know that cost of living pressures are biting. And this additional help is just the encouragement people need to keep going to get that trade that's so important for them, but also so important for us when we think about our national goals, particularly, of course, building homes.
NAPIER: All right, we'll talk about money in a minute. But Lyndall from Burnie says: could I ask about the clash between federal policy on TAFE and our state government's ongoing cuts across all departments, including closure of all arts, film and design courses? Can you answer that?
GILES: I visited TasTAFE in Launnie yesterday. I'm a regular visitor to TAFE. We strongly believe in the Albanese Government that TAFE should be at the heart of vocational education and training in Australia. As the public provider, Australians trust TAFE and understand that it is a mark of reliable skills. Now, on a day-to-day basis, of course, it is the responsibility of the Tasmanian Government to run TasTAFE. But we have set some pretty clear objectives in our National Skills Agreement with every state and territory about how our investments should be made and how TAFE should operate. Now, concerns have been raised with me, including while I've been here. I've made clear to them, and I'll make it clear to your caller and your listeners, that I've written to Minister Ellis to clarify that my expectations and the expectations of the Commonwealth Government must be met.
NAPIER: Now, you talked about financial incentives, Minister. Small businesses tell us they still struggle. I appreciate you answering that question, too. They struggle with the cost and time involved in taking on apprentices. Beyond those incentive payments, what are you doing to make it easier for employers to train the next generation?
GILES: This is a really good question. We've made some tough decisions in the recent Budget. Based on evidence, we've spent a bit of time looking at how the incentives the Australian Government provides to both apprentices and their employers to make sure that they're delivering bang for buck for the taxpayer, and doing the right thing in terms of making sure that they really are incentives to change behaviour. We've focused our support on small businesses because we understand that often the operator of a small business doesn't have a dedicated HR team behind them or all the other things that a larger business has. So that's why we've got $5,000 currently on the table for small businesses in this Key Apprenticeship Program to encourage them to take on an apprentice, because we know it's a big decision and we want to make sure that businesses are encouraged to go down that path. And you talked about the nearly 700 Tasmanian apprentices who've started under this Key Apprenticeship Program. One of the stats that I'm really keen on is there are 422 separate businesses that have engaged those apprentices. So it's showing that this is not just about getting apprentices in, it's about supporting small businesses to invest in building their skills and particularly to keep skills in Tasmania, and I think especially in northern Tassie.
NAPIER: Because success isn't measured by enrolments alone, right?
GILES: That's exactly right. It's about getting people to the end, and it's something that I'm really focused on. And it's great for me to be able to listen to apprentices, the people employing them, and also some of the trainers at TasTAFE to make sure we're not missing anything that might stop someone from getting from start to finish of their trade.
NAPIER: There have been calls for more adults to become apprentices to fill the gap, but an adult apprentice can cost employers significantly more than hiring a younger person. This is what Kane Tyler Smith told me on Breakfast recently. He’s a trades and services expert.
[Excerpt]
KANE TYLER SMITH: For them, the wage is probably not enough. So it's a hard one whether they can get government support or the employer can get even more support than what we already do to try and help cover the gap.
[Excerpt ends]
NAPIER: I understand there have been some changes, Minister, this month for adult apprentices over 21. What are they?
GILES: So there have been some changes around how the award system kicks in over the life of an apprenticeship. But I guess the question of wages has been a perennial one, and there'll be ongoing discussions about it. Obviously, it's a matter for an employer to pay beyond what they are required to do to invest in their business, if that's something that they can do. There obviously is a role for government in the incentive scheme, which we recognise. It is something that when we think about people starting their apprenticeships, the average age is in the 20s now. So it's often the case that people are starting later in life, often with commitments, often not living at home, as may have been the case a generation ago. It's something I think we need to keep looking at, keep listening to the voices of both apprentices and people seeking to employ them, to make sure that we are not disincentivising anyone from getting skills for a career that's really, really important. And we know we have had persistent skill shortages in this area. We’re doing everything we can to address those shortages, but we recognise that we've got to keep listening to people.
NAPIER: Just quickly, Tasmania has unique workforce challenges, I'm sure you're aware, because of our smaller population, regional communities. What's the next step to ensure young Tasmanians can train, stay and build their careers here rather than leaving the state as so many do?
GILES: That's a great question. My own family on my dad's side are from Tassie and went to Melbourne, so perhaps I should declare that conflict of interest, Kim.
NAPIER: Yes.
GILES: But look, one thing that I'm really struck by is how people do want to stay. And it's about, for me, making sure we're getting the balance right between offering people opportunities to get skills they want to do jobs that can be done locally, to give someone not just skills for a job, but skills for a career that they can make a really good life where they want to make it. And that's something that I've heard loud and clear from those electrical apprentices I was chatting to yesterday and from many others, and I think there are so many opportunities in Tassie. The challenge for us is to make sure that locals can seize those opportunities for themselves and see a future here in Launnie or right around northern Tasmania.
We see that through Free TAFE because, one, I'm really thrilled at the stats in Tassie, but that's about not just offering people a free course. It's about tailoring those offers to where there are jobs that need to be done in that community. And obviously, the mix in Tasmania is different to what it might look like in WA. So it's about making sure that we're helping people find that pathway, obviously not telling them what to do, but making it easier to make those choices that will set themselves up for a job, but also for a career of contribution in their community.
NAPIER: All right. You've been in Launnie for work, not pleasure. Do you get a chance to catch up with extended family?
GILES: Funnily enough, my Tasmanian family have either been on the West Coast, they're not there anymore, or in Hobart. So that's two confessions I've made, but you let me off by not asking me that question you flagged at the start.
NAPIER: About Kylie Minogue, no.
GILES: We can call that a draw, I hope, Kim.
NAPIER: Lovely to chat with you.
GILES: And look, I should say, I always love coming to Launceston. It's a beautiful part of the world. And to think about what a federal government that's really listening to the voices on the ground and, of course, to my good friend Jess Teesdale, it's something that's very important to me, and I hope I'll be invited back soon.
NAPIER: Excellent. You will, thank you. Federal Skills Minister, Andrew Giles, take care.
GILES: Cheers, Kim.