Radio interview - ABC Radio Sydney Drive

EMMA CROWE, HOST: News today that there will be a big boost in funding to roll out more digital skills and AI training through the establishment of a Centre of Excellence through TAFE at Meadowbank. Andrew Giles is the Federal Skills and Training Minister and he's here now. Thank you very much for being here, Minister. 

ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Great to be talking with you, Emma. 

CROWE: Some people will be familiar with Meadowbank TAFE, but just run us through what's there at the moment. 

GILES: Look, at Meadowbank TAFE there's been this great partnership set up as the Institute of Applied Technology, which has been really running as a pilot to upskill and reskill students in cyber security and AI and similar fields, working closely with Microsoft and other university partners. What we've done is partner in the Albanese Government with the Minns Government really to supercharge this and turn it into a TAFE Centre of Excellence through an $11 million investment. This is something that will see 50,000 Australians each year gain the benefit of some fantastic, really focused industry-led skills in an area that's dynamic, that's changing and really important, particularly when it comes to AI. 

CROWE: So federal money and state money with this $11 million investment. And like you say, to roll out more AI digital skills training through this Centre of Excellence short courses, I believe, to help people upskill quickly? 

GILES: It's a real focus of this, because we know that technology is changing so fast. We know also that 85 per cent of office workers are using AI in their day-to-day working life. And what most of them are looking for is not a more formal, long-form qualification, but things that are responsive to technology right now and qualifications that are industry led. So the focus here is really about 
microskills, microcredentials, things like that that enable people to stay in touch or to get ahead of the curve when it comes to their work – making a big difference for them, but also, frankly, as a country, helping us seize the productivity opportunities here. 

CROWE: It does feel like we're in a bit of a race to get upskilled in AI in particular. How do you think we're going more generally in equipping the workforce for what's coming and, in lots of cases, what's already here? 

GILES: I think we've made real progress. But this is one of those areas that, while we can be pleased with some of the successes, we should never be satisfied. Because technology is moving so fast and it's so important that we enable Australians in every field to stay across of it. That's what we're really trying to do here, is just to make sure across our initiatives in the skilling space that Australians get the skills they want so they can continue to do the jobs that we need. And we know there are so many great opportunities directly in the tech sector, but increasingly in other aspects of the economy where AI proficiency is becoming increasingly important. We just don't want and we can't let people fall behind. 

CROWE: Emma Crowe with you this week, filling in for Thomas Oriti on 702 ABC Sydney Drive. Andrew Giles is the Federal Skills and Training Minister and he's here now. It's interesting, Minister, speaking with you so soon after my conversation with Professor George Williams from Western Sydney University yesterday. He was saying that a university education is the best ticket to social mobility. And we don't really know what the jobs of the future are, so broad university degrees where people can learn how to be critical thinkers are especially useful right now. You're in the skills and training space and you've been quoted as saying you'd like to see school leavers in a bit of a 50-50 split – half to TAFE and half to university. Do you think we've prioritised a university education over the opportunities in the TAFE sector? 

GILES: Look, I think there's been a trend towards that for quite some time. And it shouldn't be about a competition. It should be about what I talk about as being a parity of esteem, recognising that these are different pathways and not ones that sit in a hierarchy with one being better than the other. And increasingly, one of the things that I think George also spoke about is for the need for those two streams of post-school education to get much better at talking to each other. Because we recognise that so many Australians will have more than one career and we want to make it easier for people to transition their skill sets, not harder. So, I mean, my big view is that we do know that most jobs being generated in the economy today, more than nine in 10, require some form of tertiary education – slightly more than half the universities, slightly less are vocational TAFE qualifications. The important thing is to get more people into those pathways and to support them to succeed and get those qualifications. 

CROWE: Where do you see the high school system fitting in here? I know back when I was at school, it was still the case that some students left school at Year 10, there was the school certificate and some people left and went on to do, they went to TAFE then age 16. Others stayed on into senior studies and the idea was that those people would go to university. Do you think 16 is too young to be making this call about whether you're going down to TAFE or university route? Do you think school should continue right through to Year 12 for most students?

GILES: Well, I think that there's two answers to that question. I do think we need to start talking with young Australians, possibly before they're 16 in many senses, about the sort of options that are open to them to make sure they're not closing off opportunities too early when it comes to things like subject choices, when they think about the world of work they're going to go into. But I do think obviously the benefits for most people of completing school, there's a pretty clear evidence base for. I think beyond that though, making sure that people can make really good choices about the suite of options that will equip them for the skills they want that will support them to have a really good satisfying career and a good life that goes with that. And that can be vocational pathway as well as through a university pathway. And I guess what we are trying to do is to break down all of the barriers there through things like Free TAFE, through things like the 20 per cent discount of HECS debts that we've been rolling out just to make it easier for Australians, particularly in cost of living pressure times, to take that next step to get a first qualification or increasingly to go back to TAFE or uni and get an additional qualification.

CROWE: What do you think about the Job Ready Graduates reforms that were brought in by the Morrison government? I mean, this is over in the university space. But what do you think about the calls to dismantle that program and make university cheaper as well?

GILES: The Universities Accord was the key way in which my colleague and friend, Jason Clare, who I work really closely with, looked to set out the vision for that sector and indeed for tertiary education more broadly made a number of recommendations and part of that was actually calling out the things that have flowed from the Job Ready Graduate Scheme as a significant failure in part for the reasons that you were discussing with Professor Williams the other day. But I guess what we're trying to do is to really work our way through, systematically through those 47 recommendations I think the majority of them are either completed or in part. The things like that 20 per cent debt, changing the indexation system for HECS and putting a bit more money in as well. So there's obviously more to do there and I'm really confident that Jason will continue to work through all of those recommendations.

CROWE: Andrew Giles, the Federal Skills and Training Minister is here. I wanted to ask you, Minister, about the Opposition Leader's comments on migration today. You're the Skills and Training Minister. Our migration system has long been a skilled migration system. How important is it that Australia attracts skilled workers from around the world? And how do you see a broader migration conversation through the lens of someone who knows where our skills gaps are and knows how crucial migrants are in filling these gaps?

GILES: That's a great question, and anyone reading Mr Taylor's speech would find no answers to it, no ideas about skills migration, no ideas about growing the Australian economy, securing jobs for Australians. And I think it's really disappointing, but frankly unsurprising, that all we really saw was yet another attempt to divide Australians rather than to focus on the national interest. It's a speech, frankly, that's all about his sense of his political interest being led by One Nation rather than focusing on a really important debate that is fundamentally about our national interests including how we can focus on bridging those skills gaps, getting the balance right between ensuring that Australians can get skills they want while recognising that some short-term skills needs will need to be filled in part by skilled migration.

CROWE: Where are those gaps? If someone's listening now, they've got a young person in their life, maybe they're younger themselves or they're thinking about retraining. Where would you send people? Where can you see the big gaping holes in our skills sector at the moment?

GILES: The first place I'd tell them to look in New South Wales is the TAFE New South Wales Free TAFE list. Free TAFE isn't just about opening up a door to a qualification and taking away that financial barrier. It's focusing people on those areas where we need work to be done. So there's obviously a real demand right across the care economy in nursing, in aged care, in disability, in child care and early learning, in construction. We need more Australians on the tools and through initiatives like our Key Apprenticeship Program offering $10,000 in construction apprenticeship pathways, $10,000 support to the apprentice. Things like plumbing, electrical, carpentry, these are skills that are in demand. Technology, obviously, is another critical area. So there are a couple of examples, but I reckon what's available from Free TAFE is a pretty good guide.

CROWE: Meanwhile, people wanting to reskill or upskill in AI might want to look to TAFE as well. You're talking this investment is part of Albanese Government's $325 million in funding to establish a national network of up to 20 TAFE Centres of Excellence under this National Skills Agreement with the states and territories. How are you going nationally on this project?

GILES: Today we've hit number 17, so I think that that's a pretty good marker and I'm really pleased that every jurisdiction in Australia has signed up to be part of a National TAFE Network. So the skills that are being developed and delivered in Meadowbank can also be accessed by someone in Devonport or Darwin, and vice versa too, making sure that right around the country we can deliver focused effort through industry and university partnerships in TAFEs that can then be rolled out around the country. It's something that I'm really excited by.

CROWE: Thanks so much for some time today. I really appreciate it.

GILES: Great to be chatting with you, Emma.

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