Radio Interview - ABC Brisbane
ELLEN FANNING, HOST: Last week, Opposition Leader Angus Taylor used his Budget Reply speech to declare non-citizens, including tax-paying permanent residents, would be barred from social services under an updated migration crackdown proposed by the Coalition. But at least one Liberal Party politician is worried about the signal that he's sending to the electorate. Liberal Senator Andrew McLachlan is concerned Coalition immigration policy alienates migrant communities.
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ANDREW MCLACHLAN, LIBERAL SENATOR: I don't think our rhetoric meets the needs of the broader community. I think our rhetoric used alienates migrant communities. I don't think we should take a negative approach to migration. Certainly it should be controlled and we don't want to invite people here without giving them a society that can accommodate them, both economically and culturally. But we cannot continue to blame migrants for the problems of our economy.
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FANNING: ‘We cannot continue to blame migrants for the problems of our economy.’ The Opposition Leader, Angus Taylor, was asked about those comments.
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ANGUS TAYLOR, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION:No, it alienates the government that's got it wrong. This has got nothing to do with migrant communities. We think migration is incredibly important to this country – it always has been and always will be. But the numbers can't be too high and the standards can't be too low or Australians say it's got to be fixed, and Australians are saying it must be fixed now. Because the numbers got up to 550,000 in a year, and housing construction was going backwards. No wonder young Australians can't get into a home.
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FANNING: There's the Opposition Leader, Angus Taylor, speaking today. Andrew Giles is the Minister for Skills and Training, previously the Minister for Immigration. How do you reflect on that debate within the Coalition, Minister?
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Well, I think there's two points to be made. Firstly, I want to congratulate Senator McLachlan for making a really important contribution in the national interest – putting country before party – and requiring, I guess, all of us to think about the consequences of the words that some of us in public life say on communities. Hearing Mr McLachlan’s comments and then Mr Taylor's, I think how incredibly important it is that Senator McLachlan made those points. Because Angus Taylor is always looking for someone to blame, never to solve a problem, and he seems heedless of the consequences, and these sorts of comments have real consequences for our economy and for our communities.
The first obligation of any government's obviously got to keep communities safe, and that involves keeping our community united. The comments that Angus Taylor made in his Budget Reply do the opposite. Instead of trying to build a skills system and a migration system that builds our nation, he seems determined to build a monument to One Nation, and that's a race to the bottom for the Liberal Party and has real consequences for many Australians.
FANNING: How do you unpack it all though, Minister? The Lowy Institute did a survey a little while ago – a very well-respected organisation – found 53 per cent of Australians think the rate of migration is too high given the housing shortage. Now, is that blaming migrants for the problems of our community, or is that just their heartfelt view?
GILES: I think there's, again, a couple of points to be made. Firstly, how politicians talk about this really matters. And I just heard the clip that you played of Mr Taylor. What he doesn't say is, of course, that the increase was under migration policy settings that were set by the government of which he was a minister.
FANNING: So, when he says 550,000 people, that was the rebound catch-up number of permanent and temporary migrants allowed into this country under the Morrison government post-COVID?
GILES: Yeah. And obviously this was at a time when we first came into government when Mr Dutton was talking for the numbers to be higher before the political winds changed. The second point he doesn't make is that we have brought the rate of net overseas migration down – down by 45 per cent. And our budget settings, again, are all about building a migration system that delivers the skills that Australia needs, building our nation, getting those balances right, as our other changes in the Budget do too. And there isn't a single word in Mr Taylor's Budget Reply or anything else he's done that would deliver an extra job, build an extra house or keep any community member safer for that matter.
FANNING: Is it fair for listeners to be frustrated that the migration, the Government keeps missing the migration target? Last week's Budget revealing the Government would miss this year's migration target by 35,000, and has increased the expected intake. It also is at least a year behind in the goal of building 1.2 million homes by 2029. It's very hard to get around those facts and that sentiment, isn't it – that policy failure perhaps is driving these sorts of sentiments?
GILES: These are, of course, sentiments, Ellen, as you’d know, that are not just felt in Australia – they’re felt across the developed world. And of course, we have to respond to them. I think it’s fair to say that we are. I said a few moments ago that we've changed our policy settings so that net overseas migration has come down quite significantly. We've also changed, through the migration strategy put in place, some critical questions around the mix. So for example, we are taking on more people with construction skills through the skilled migration scheme. Certainly there is more to do. There have been announcements in the Budget last week to try and deal with that as well. I don't shy away and no one in the Government shies away from that fact, but I think the critical point is to confront the challenges that Australia faces in a sober and considered manner and look to find solutions and solutions that bring people together, not divisive rhetoric, as Senator McLachlan said, that divides community without providing any meaningful answers.
FANNING: You're listening to Andrew Giles, the Minister for Skills and Training, previously the Immigration Minister under the first Albanese Government. I wonder whether the debate hasn't to some extent got away from people like you, Minister, and I wonder whether it’s frustrating to you. You hear people say ‘foreigners shouldn't be allowed to buy houses in Australia.’ Well, broadly, they can't. ‘We shouldn't have Sharia law in Australia.’ Well, we don't. That old expression, a lie has gone halfway around the world by the time the truth gets its pants on.
GILES: I think that's right, and that's why hopefully conversations like this are increasingly important, because we do know that increasingly Australians consume their political news through social media. Often it is very difficult to fact check. Often it is easier to tell a short message than explain a policy challenge. But we can't shy away from that, and where mistruth is spoken, we've got to call them out. And we've all also got to think about the impact that our statements have, not just on the policy debate, but on the lives of Australians, the many Australians who've come here from different countries, who've made amazing contributions to the Australian community.
FANNING: Listen to this on the text line, Andrew Giles. ‘The issue with the numbers and the question to ask,’ says Fred, and he's right, he's advising me that he's right. ‘How many migrants are still working in the job they migrated for, or are they driving trucks, taxis and Uber drivers? Driving in Uber cars, beggars belief that these folks are engineers. Could it be that they are unable to work here due to accreditation issues? Why are they here then?’ He’s on to something. There’s about 600,000 residents, right, in Australia whose skills aren’t recognised? How do we end up with all these doctors, and I spoke to somebody the other day who was a Palestinian neurosurgeon who is – her husband’s working as a cleaner in Sydney at the moment. How can we fix that?
GILES: We can and I think it’s a great question from Fred because actually in this Budget we’ve put $85 million to deal with exactly this issue. Faster skills assessment for migrant trade workers, skills recognition for migrants who are already in the country, dealing with exactly the issue you raised, and some stronger oversight over skills assessments so that some of the frustrations that skilled migrants have experienced can be dealt with more effectively. I should also say that some of the issues that have been discussed relate to other aspects of the migration system which were identified in the migration strategy that we released in 2023. These are real issues and we should make sure, particularly we face real skills challenges across the economy that we have everyone here able to contribute at the highest possible level and the level that makes them feel satisfied and a contributor. So I really take on board Fred’s question, we’ve made a really significant announcement in the Budget that deals with this exact issue.
FANNING: Housing is described by my colleague here, Steve Austin who presents Mornings on 612 ABC Radio, as the greatest policy failure of our generation. Are you conscious as a Minister in this Government that fixing housing, whether it is through the housing construction goals, whether it is through the attempts that you’re making in the Budget to wind back investor incentives to use housing as an investment class rather than somewhere to live, that getting that right, there’s a lot of social cohesion depending on that? Whether it’s migrants feeling welcome in this country or younger people feeling they can get ahead? There’s a lot riding on you guys not screwing this up.
GILES: Yeah, there is. And my colleague, Minister O'Neil, makes this point regularly that this is a problem that has been a generation in the making and that’s why we’re running at it with such [indistinct] and Minister O’Neil in particular. That’s why this Budget will help an additional 75,000 Australians buy a home, to give them a shot. There is so much to be done and that’s why we are running at pace, working of course with the states and territories, working of course with local government who are principally responsible for planning, making sure that we’re leaving absolutely no stone unturned in terms of dealing with this issue because I, like probably every local member in the Australian Parliament, get pretty direct feedback about this question from my younger constituents.
FANNING: Bet you do. Andrew Giles, thank you for taking the time.
GILES: Great to be talking with you, Ellen. Thanks very much.
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