Interview with Steve Cannane - ABC RN Breakfast

STEVE CANNANE, HOST: Andrew Giles is the Minister for Skills and Training. He was with the PM as he launched the policy in Adelaide yesterday and joins us now.

Andrew Giles, welcome to the program.

MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING ANDREW GILES MP: Great to be with you, Steve.

CANNANE: Thank you. Let's start with higher education. This new policy will wipe 20 per cent off a student's debt and allow them to start making repayments later. Given university students end up earning more than non-students in the long run, why should other taxpayers subsidise their education and subsidise their earning capacity later in life?

GILES: Well, there's a couple of things to say about that. This, of course builds on the fairer indexation changes that Minister Clare introduced back in May. And this is a really big change that will help people who are doing it tough right now. Some with an average HECS debt will see around 5,500 wiped off their debt. This is going to continue to incentivise people to do something which is good for them getting a good education, but also good for the country. We recognise in Labor that higher education, be it in TAFE or in university, carries an individual benefit, but it's also about growing the economy and building our nation.

CANNANE: But aren't there people who are doing it tougher than university graduates and they are going to have to end up subsidising this through the tax system?

GILES: Well, we know that nine out of 10 jobs that are being generated in the economy will require a post-compulsory qualification, a degree or a trade qualification. The two announcements that the Prime Minister made yesterday in Adelaide are about continuing to support young people and, indeed, older people to get the qualifications they need for a good secure job and to make that contribution to growing the Australian economy.

CANNANE: The government says these measures and also the changes to indexation will help wipe $20 billion worth of debt off, given the budget is due to go into deficit next year, how will you cover that loss of revenue?

GILES: Well, these are people who, by gaining the qualifications that we want them to gain, will be contributing to the economy and paying tax. This is an investment not just in their future, but in Australia's future. These are sensible and considered measures which won't have an inflationary, but will make a big difference to the lives of individual Australians and indeed to the shape of our economy into the future.

CANNANE: The Greens seem to support the policy, but want you to bring it to the House as soon as possible. Why not bring it this year? Why are you delaying it till next year?

GILES: Well, there's - legislation obviously is required here to make these changes. The Greens always just want to take another step further. Or simply just to claim credit for things. Unlike the Greens, we're focused on taking a considered and responsible approach to these issues in the national interest.

CANNANE: A report released by the Australia Institute last week found the annual cost of an arts degree is now nine times the original 1989 HECS contribution. As someone who got an honours degree in arts back in the day when it was way cheaper, that must make you feel uncomfortable?

GILES: Well, Bruce Chapman, the architect of HECS, made this point in the media yesterday when he said the Coalition's changes, the Jobs-ready graduate scheme, are a real inequitable measure. That is one of the real issues that we have to confront. One of the ways that we are doing so is through the measures that were announced in May and indeed the measures that were announced today. There is, of course, more to be done and the work that Jason Clare is doing in terms of implementing the Universities Accord, which this is obviously a recommendation, doing further steps like establishing the Australian Tertiary Education Commission will involve us setting up a tertiary education system that's fit for the future.

CANNANE: On Radio National Breakfast, it's 10 minutes past eight and we're talking to Andrew Giles, the Minister for Skills and Training. You've also announced you'll legislate for 100,000 Fee-Free TAFE positions a year from 2027. You want to lock that in going forward. Why is that a priority?

GILES: Well, one of the things that I'm most excited about is meeting people who are benefiting from the current Fee-Free TAFE rollout. Be it older women studying to become enrolled nurses in Queensland or a young woman undertaking a welding apprenticeship in Tasmania, what we are seeing is a product - a program, rather, that is smashing expectations. We want to bake it in. We want to make sure that Australians can get the skills that they want so that we can build the economy that is growing in the interests of all Australians. Under the Liberals, they slashed $3 billion from TAFE and were unable to land a national skills agreement. Fee-Free TAFE is a product of the agreement that my predecessor, Brendan O'Connor, put in place. We want to extend that into the future so that people can have confidence that this will continue and we can continue around the country to give Australians the opportunity to get the skills they want and our economy needs.

CANNANE: And what skills are you targeting?

GILES: Well, construction is obviously an area. We've seen 35,000 people enrol in construction courses through Fee-Free TAFE. Across the care sector, that's another area. Building the net zero economy and assisting in the net zero transformation. What the agreement recognises, though, is that in different jurisdictions, because, of course, the provision of this is a partnership between the Commonwealth and the state and the territories. There will be differences in needs. So, we need to be flexible for that and flexible around changes in economic circumstances over time. But I think we can be very clear about areas like construction and the care economy. And the net zero opportunities, particularly into manufacturing, will continue to be key focuses here.

CANNANE: On that issue of construction, a report by Build Skills Australia, a council your government set up, found Australia will have 200,000 fewer builders than needed next year. Now, that, surely, is going to undermine your targets to build more homes. Is the government doing enough to skill up the labour force to provide the workers required to build the homes that are required?

GILES: Yeah, this is an absolute priority and we can't ignore the consequences of the decade of neglect under the Liberals and the Nationals. We have focused through the agreement, through Fee-Free TAFE, through the work that we're doing on apprenticeship reform, on building a workforce that will enable us, amongst other things, to build the houses Australians need. This is an absolute focus for our government.

CANNANE: That takes time, though. And as a former Immigration Minister, you're obviously aware that one answer to this solution is to get more skilled workers coming into the country who already have those skills. Should the government be doing that more to get those homes built?

GILES: Well, in the last two years, we granted more construction visas than we have done in a very, very long time. That has been the focus of our reforms to the migration system through the migration strategy. The approach that has been adopted by the Opposition would, of course, see fewer visas come through for construction workers and skilled workers more generally.

CANNANE: So, Parliament is back today, no doubt the Coalition will be asking questions about Qantas, about upgrades. Is there a perception problem here in the community that there are too many Labor MPs asking for upgrades, spending too much time in the Qantas President's Lounge, or the big - the lounge - the Chairman's Lounge, or that people don't have access to in a way that has, you know, no connection to normal Australian people?

GILES: I think there's two things to be said here, Steve. Firstly, the people that I've been talking to in my electorate and around the country are much more focused on what the government is doing for them than what we are doing ourselves. Much more focused on the rollout of urgent care clinics, indeed of Fee-Free TAFE, on the measures that we are taking to focus on the lives of Australians, which is what the Prime Minister is concerned with each and every day. What we do need to do, though, is to support trust in politics and the system of declarations is obviously fundamentally important to that.

CANNANE: Andrew Giles, we'll have to leave it there, but thank you for your time this morning.

GILES: Great to be with you, Steve. Thanks.

CANNANE: Thank you. Andrew Giles, Minister for Skills and Training, talking there with Parliament back this week. It is a quarter past eight.

ENDS