Interview with Pulse FM

SAMANTHA DURNEY, HOST: And we have Minister Giles on the line. Hello.

ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Hello. How's it going?

HOST: Very good. This is Minister Giles and he's chatting to us about free TAFE. He's coming to Geelong today.

TRISH REDMAN, HOST: Sounds important. Good morning, Minister Giles.

GILES: Yeah, good morning, Trish. Great to be talking with you this morning and really looking forward to getting back to Geelong and hearing some stories about how free TAFE is changing the lives of young people and some not so young people too, down in Geelong.

HOST: Now. Free TAFE is really important. It's a--

HOST: It's a pathway for people, isn't it?

GILES: Well, definitely. And one of the things that I've found is, outside of the bigger cities, it's been an even bigger difference in opening up opportunities to people who perhaps hadn't thought they were open, leading people to get skills they want for jobs that we need done. In Geelong now we've had more than 5,800 enrolments.

HOST: Wow.

GILES: Things like nursing, community services and individual support. So, people getting skills through really important jobs, making a difference in the community and obviously giving them the opportunity to have a good, secure job.

HOST: It is amazing. I've got my niece living with me at the moment and she's doing Year 12. And it's quite amazing because, yes, we're looking at all the universities, but we are definitely looking at TAFE because there are so many avenues that you can take now and individual support. Like, what a brilliant career for somebody.

GILES: Well, that's right. And these are jobs that we know need doing that make a real difference, that give someone a sense of fulfillment, that make a difference. And I think across the board, we need to make sure that we recognise that there are two pathways for someone thinking about exiting school. Obviously, university, but we need to have what some people have described as a parity of esteem with that VET pathway. And to remind people that TAFE is a fantastic institution that provides practical skills that are so important in so many areas of our economy, whether it's manufacturing, whether it's building the houses that we need, whether it's that net zero transition or those caring and healthcare roles too, all of which are so important.

HOST: Are they? Do you think they're promoting TAFE enough at schools?

GILES: Well, I think there are some really big questions about how we open up all the options that young people should be presented with in a school setting. I know that there's a real challenge in pushing more things into an already crowded curriculum and I know that teachers need to concentrate on the teaching role, but I do think we can do a better job as a community of opening up the options that are there in the workforce. Recognising, and I say this as someone who's now clocked past 50, that the world of work for young people who are maybe 15, 16 or a little bit older now is very different than the job market that I entered into because we know that many young people will be working in many different careers over their lifetime. So, how do we better support them to make good choices early? And of course, to not forget about the fact that many people are also using free TAFE as an opportunity to reskill and jump into a different career at a later stage in life too.

HOST: Absolutely.

HOST. So, there are no age boundaries here, are they? Anybody can go back and change their direction of their future if they want to.

GILES: One of the things that I've really been struck by around the country, I mentioned that nursing, enrolled nursing is one of the courses that's had the highness take up in Geelong. I've met a lot of people, mostly women who've been working in other healthcare roles for whom nursing wasn't an option when they were leaving school. But now they've been working in that setting for a while - they know it because it's free - it's something that they can jump at and take that next step in their career.  To hear the pride and satisfaction of some of these people, often of my age, is something that I find really gratifying. And it also reminds me, and hopefully your listeners too, that while the numbers of free TAFE are significant - 5,800 enrolments in Geelong - around 600,000 around the country. What's more important than the numbers are the lives that we are changing.

HOST: Absolutely. And imagine leaving with a qualification and having no debt.

GILES: Well, that's, that's fantastic, isn't it?

HOST: It's amazing.

HOST: It's important. It's important because people can't always afford to do, to go back to school. And also, you know, you might have a job and you need your job to, to pay your bills, but if you have to pay your school fees on top of that, you know, you sort of-there's no opportunity for you. But there are opportunities out there. So, anybody can change their future really.

GILES: Well, that's what we're really trying to say through free TAFE and obviously we're taking steps to help people manage university debt and indeed some of the debts associated with VET through our 20 per cent cut that we have committed to, that will come into effect later this year. But opening this door, making sure that we're getting rid of that cost barrier that's held so many people back from getting skills they want.  And of course, not just skills at large, but skills in areas that we so desperately need workers.

HOST: Yeah, we absolutely do what this is all about.

HOST. So, is there any chance we will get free apprenticeship or a cuts in apprenticeship? Because we're builders and we have several apprentices and. Wow. I really feel for them because they're earning a very minimal amount of money and then they get these fees. We actually pay them for them, but a lot of people don't. So, that would be a really good change.

GILES: Yeah. Look, Trish and Sam, look, this is a really big question too.  Obviously, while you're an apprentice, you are earning while you are learning. Although the wages obviously are a challenge for many people, particularly with cost of living pressures, we've taken some steps to address that in some of the really important areas. We made a big commitment in the election to introduce a key apprenticeship payment, $10,000 over the life of an apprenticeship for people working in residential housing construction, just to emphasise how important that housing construction challenge is and we want to incentivise more people to get in there.

HOST: Excellent.

GILES: In terms of apprenticeships too, on the free TAFE list we've funded some extra places here in that Certificate II, that pre apprenticeship, which has been really important in making sure that when someone starts the apprenticeship, particularly in something that can be really challenging, like becoming an electrician, they've got the fundamentals.  So they know what it is that they're entering into for that four year journey and they're prepared for it. So, we are continuing to look at how we can make sure that the apprenticeship pathway is better supported.

We need more people to be starting apprenticeships, and we need, of course, more people to be supported to finish them. That's a really big challenge. And in fact, the things that I'm really focused on over this term of Parliament, as the Minister for Skills and Training, is how do we get more people into apprenticeships and how do we make sure that once they start, they get all the support they need to finish it?

HOST: Finishing is very important because a lot of people have an idea in their head that I want to be this, I want to do this, and then they start, and sooner, as it starts to get hard, they need support. You can do it, keep on going.

GILES: Well, that's exactly it. And I think that's why in many cases doing that Certificate II can be really important, so people have a clear understanding of the journey through the apprenticeship. One thing that we hear often about is that young people starting an electrical apprenticeship who haven't quite appreciated how challenging some of the maths can be. And so, if they're prepared early for that, it's so much easier than grappling with something when they're several months in and feeling all of those other pressures around cost of living and.

HOST: Yeah, also the confidence, the confidence of thinking, “Hey, I could do that”. You know, or if somebody's returning to studying and they can think, “Well, I can actually do that.” So, the pre-apprenticeship courses are fantastic. I remember when I was young, I wanted to join the police force. There was always the pre-police course you could do to help you study for the exams. Is that still a thing nowadays?

GILES: Look, I've got to say, I don't know the answer to that. Victoria Police support people into the academy, but maybe I can take that, as we like to say in politics, as a question on notice.

HOST: Yeah, I have a feeling it might be because I did go to an open educational thing the other night and I think there was a policeman there talking about it. So, there you go. Look, I think it's brilliant and well done because free TAFE and--

HOST: Sorry to interrupt, but do they have a like an Open Day for TAFE?

HOST: Yes.

GILES: Oh, yeah.  No, definitely. And one of the things I might do when I'm at the Gordon, as well as listening to the students and talking to the staff about their experiences, is talking with them about how we can do an even better job of promoting what they do at that fantastic institution.

HOST: I do think schools are pretty good. They're pretty on the ball with it now with TAFE, I think they've got a lot of information, and I think they do help the kids with that. And well, I'm only a community member but I always think of the Gordon and I just think- I know that they've got a huge amount of courses available.

So, we've got this attitude on our brekkie show, and that's ‘go attie’, which is go get up and do it. That's our little motive. And we're saying, people, you know, “Here, look, you've got a free TAFE. Go and have a look and see if there's something that you would like to study because you can.”  We're very lucky in Australia, you can do anything you want, really.

GILES: Yeah. Well, that's exactly the message that we'd like to deliver in the Albanese Government. We want to break down those barriers that have held people back from doing the things they want to do and feeling that they're making a real difference too, which I think most people want out of their work. And all of these courses do just that. It's about no one held back and no one left behind, as the Prime Minister would say.

HOST: Yeah, no, and I agree totally. I think it's brilliant.

HOST: And there's a good variety of things you can do as well. I think that's the one of the main things. It's not just a small list of things. There's a lot of stuff. If you go to the Open Day, you get to see what trades and what things you can do. I mean, I didn't know about nursing.

GILES: Yeah, well, it's been a very popular course. It's obviously a job that is incredibly demanding but also very satisfying. A job that's been in shortage for some time. So, nursing, construction, the technology sector, cyber security has been really popular. Agriculture too. So, it's really. Pretty much everything where there are jobs that need to be done is connected to the free TAFE program.

HOST: That is brilliant. Look, I've done a lot of things. I've done fashion design at the Gordon, and I've done lots of things. But, you know, you're actually making me feel excited about learning. I would like to go back and learn something else.

HOST: You don't have time.

HOST: I don't have time, but I am excited, and I hope everybody is excited.

HOST: I think it's exciting that young people have and older people have more options because like we said before, you know, a lot of people do have dreams of doing something, but they don't have the money. And that's really sad when you really want to do something, but you just don't have the funds to do it.

GILES: Yeah, well, that's it. And I think there are so many ways in which TAFEs work, as well as with the fee-free nature of the offer, to make sure that we can ensure that people can balance their study with the other demands in their life - whether it's caring responsibilities or anything else. We know that most students are part-time, so it's about offering that flexibility, just to make sure that we are looking at every barrier that might be holding someone back from getting that dream job and the skills they need for it. And that's one of the things I'm always really excited to do: to listen to students, to understand their journey, what works for them, so that we can make sure that we're addressing those issues on an ongoing basis - not just having a set-and-forget attitude to this.

HOST: Well, well done. Sounds good. Sounds really exciting.

HOST. So, you're coming down to Geelong today, you said?

GILES: Yes, I am. I will as soon as the interview's over. I'll get back on the road.

HOST: Get back on the road.  Thank you for chatting to us, Minister Giles, and letting us know.

HOST: Letting us know and everybody know that's listening.

GILES: Yeah.

HOST: And get down to the Gordon and jump online. I'm sure that there'd be a lot of lists of things you can do on there and you'd be able to find a path.

GILES: Yeah, well I think if you Google ‘free TAFE Victoria’, you'll find some good options out there.

HOST: Brilliant.

HOST: Fantastic.

HOST: Thanks for chatting today.

GILES: Great. Thank you very much. Really enjoyed it and always love coming down to Geelong and being with my great mate, Libby Coker.