Interview with Pat Conroy and Sharon Claydon - University of Newcastle

E&OE Transcript 

DEPUTY SPEAKER SHARON CLAYDON: It is a great day to be welcoming Minister Giles to Newcastle and my friend and neighbour Pat Conroy, because we’re celebrating another extraordinary milestone in Labor’s Fee-Free TAFE rollout. We know this has been hugely popular in our region in particular. Within weeks of the first rollout happening we had exhausted the take-up rate for all our fee-free places. We know it was exceptionally popular for women returning to the workforce, re-training, and we can see now in the evidence coming through just how important removing that financial obstacle for people to go and train or retrain has been. These things, of course, don’t happen by accident. It’s a very thoughtful, deliberate design of policy work from a federal government that prioritises training and trades, filling our workforce shortage areas, prioritising those, making sure that we are addressing the gender pay gap, for example. So we’ve seen the work that has been done in terms of lifting wages for people who work in aged care, lifting the wages of people working in early childhood education. We’re seeing now people wanting to return to trades and retrain in those areas. These are areas of massive skill shortages, so it’s great news. We know this will be hugely popular again in our region, and the focus on skill shortages has never been more critical

I’m going to hand across to Minister Conroy to take you through some of the work that’s been done locally, and then we’ll turn to Minister Giles.

MINISTER PAT CONROY: Thanks, Sharon, and it’s a pleasure to be here with Minister Giles and the formidable Sharon Claydon, the member for Newcastle and Deputy Speaker of the parliament. Ladies and gentlemen, Fee-Free TAFE changes people’s lives, and I mean that sincerely. Fee-Free TAFE gives people the chance to get the skills they need, gives them a chance to re-train if they’re looking at more opportunities, and for kids leaving school – this is the week for year 12 graduations – going on to fee-free TAFE to get training and skills in areas of skill shortage is changing their lives. It’s giving them huge opportunity and improving our economy. Later today Minister Giles and I will be visiting Belmont TAFE and speaking to people getting training in electrical apprenticeships and in engineering courses. These are critical for a number of industries that are driving the Hunter economy. They’re critical to the renewed investment in energy that we’re seeing in our economy as coal-fired power stations close down as they reach the end of their natural life, and we’re investing in cheap, clean energy to renew manufacturing. So we’ll be meeting workers there engaged in that industry. We’ll be meeting workers being part of our resurgent manufacturing sector.

Manufacturing jobs around the country are growing, and we need more engineering apprentices, we need more sparkies, and Fee-Free TAFE is delivering that. In my own portfolio of Defence Industry, we’re building a missile factory up here as part of our investment in the Australian Defence Force. We’re going to need more apprentices helping staff that factory to help defend our country. So I am really so passionate about this area. It’s a testament to Minister Giles’s achievements and Prime Minister Albanese’s work that they’ve delivered so many Fee-Free TAFE places that are changing the lives of Hunter families and Hunter workers every single day. I’d now like to invite Andrew to say a few words.

MINISTER ANDREW GILES: Yeah, thanks very much, Pat. It’s really good to be here at the University of Newcastle with yourself and with Sharon – two great friends, two colleagues who I deeply admire. And I’m particularly excited to be talking about what an enormous success Fee-Free TAFE has proven to be. In the first six months of this year we are smashing our targets with more than 150,000 enrolments. That’s 150,000 people who have made a choice to change their lives, to upskill, to reskill, to develop the sort of things that we need to fuel the economy of today and to support the economy of the future.

We know that this is making a huge difference to people’s lives and to our communities. It’s helping people with the cost-of-living. For many people, this will be a saving of thousands of dollars. But for others the saving will be simply incalculable. Just the other day I met with a group of women, older women, who were studying to become enrolled nurses in TAFE in Loganlea in Queensland. All of them told me that this was only possible because of Fee-Free TAFE. These are people who are both fulfilling a long-held dream and doing work that is so fundamentally important to our society. And that’s what this agenda is all about. It’s about more than simply the numbers; it’s about changing lives, changing communities and, as Sharon and Pat were discussing earlier, it’s about ensuring that we can meet the challenges of the skills shortages. So many of the places that people are choosing to take up are in areas where we face real demand pressures – early education and care and aged care. There’s never been a better time to look to work in these areas where we have Fee-Free TAFE on the one hand and our commitment to improve the wages and conditions on the other means. There’s never been a better time to do this critically important work. We know when it comes to manufacturing, moving the transition towards net zero and, of course, construction, these are also areas where Fee-Free TAFE is making a real difference. Now, what’s extraordinary to me today when we celebrate the achievements that Fee-Free TAFE is delivering is that the opposition continue to describe this as wasted spending. Well, I invite them to say that to the 150,000 people who have made a choice, who have made a choice that’s been facilitated by Fee-Free TAFE, to talk to them about what it means to them, their aspirations and their communities. And I also invite Peter Dutton, the Leader of the Opposition, who has not said the word TAFE in Parliament since 2004 – the year, Pat tells me, that Shrek II came out – I invite him to start talking about TAFE and how it changes lives and builds communities that fit for the future. Thanks very much, everyone. I’m obviously here to take some questions too.

JOURNALIST: Yeah, could you just give us a bit of the breakdown of which – where the enrolments are looking the highest, what kind of industries and sectors?

GILES: Well, the care sector has been absolutely outstanding – early education and care more broadly. But we’re seeing increasing numbers in construction as well. But right across the areas where there is demand in the economy we’re seeing Fee-Free TAFE places opening up. One thing that’s worth emphasising here is that this operates because of partnership. For nine long years there was no national skills agreement. My predecessor, Brendan O’Connor, brought all the Australian governments together in the agreement that facilitates us offering Fee-Free TAFE right across the country. And I want to acknowledge the governments that have been part of this – the state and territory governments. And say how sad it is that Scott Morrison’s intransigence meant that the former Liberal New South Wales government would offer a deal on skills that was effectively rejected by him.

JOURNALIST: And can you just tell us a bit about this conference today? What’s the idea here?

GILES: Well, look, the ANZ Conference on Higher Education is a really important gathering of people to talk about the future of the higher education sector. And I’m pleased to be able to make a contribution highlighting a couple of things that are really critical to the Albanese Government, building on Minister Clare’s great work in bringing together the University Accord, a big part of which is recognising that so many of the jobs of the future require post compulsory qualifications/ The point that I think is equally important is that half of those jobs require vocational qualifications, not a degree. What we’re trying to do as a government is have greater harmony between the two sectors and to value both parts of higher education or further education equally. That’s the argument that I want to make. And I also want to touch on some of the things that Minister Conroy touched upon, too – that this is really important where there are economies in transition to ensure that the skills transition to support that so local communities are not left behind.

JOURNALIST: In good news for the University of Newcastle, the international student caps mean there’ll be more students coming here next year. But they do complain that because of directive 107, if that’s not lifted in time for semester 1, 2025 they’re worried that the students visas won’t be ready in time so it won’t actually work out anyway.

GILES: Yeah, what we’re trying to do is to put in place a mechanism that will deliver integrity and certainty to the higher education sector. That’s what our managed growth approach is all about. What is frustrating is that other parties in the parliament – the Liberals unsurprisingly, the Greens perhaps a little more surprisingly – are choosing to continue to effectively insist on an approach which is all about the visa system or the issues that have been identified. What we want to do is to introduce an approach which is based on providing integrity and certainty to providers, be they universities or private higher education providers in the VET sector.

JOURNALIST: How are you doing that?

GILES: Well, by the system of caps. That is, I think, preferable, according to everyone I’ve spoken to in the sector, to the approach that relies on visa processing mechanisms. It’s transparent, it offers a pathway that enables that transition to managed growth in the interests of the institutions, which is so important because we do recognise international education is fundamentally important. It’s one of our largest export industries and is absolutely vital to powering the regions and to developing this right around the world. What we need to do is have a plan which recognises that post-pandemic the system was not operating with the sort of managed growth we think is important. There were very significant integrity issues, most of which came about under the stewardship of former Minister Dutton and was highlighted in the report by former Commissioner Nixon. So we need to restore integrity and provide certainty. That’s what our approach is all about. And I’d invite those other parties in the Senate to get on board.

JOURNALIST: Will you consider lifting that directive?

GILES: Well, what we have said is that what we need to do, instead of that directive, is to have in place an approach which enables managed growth. That is the cap system. That is the planning system. That’s an alternative to the direction. I think Minister Clare has been very clear about that.

JOURNALIST: Minister, as we heard before, it’s year 12 graduations this week for a lot of students in New South Wales and around the country. What message would you have for those who haven’t yet decided whether or not they’re going to pursue vocational education or university? What would you say to them about pursuing the vocational education path?

GILES: Yeah, look, that’s a great question. Firstly, I’m conscious that my own year 12 was a very long time ago, so I’m not reflecting on my personal experience. But I would say this: good luck to all of those students and take care, because it’s a really difficult time in just about every young person’s life grappling with the challenge of year 12 exams and the prospect of the future. But what I would like to say is that there are two equal pathways that are open to people when they finish school – a university degree for some, vocational education for others. We need to be really clear in saying that these are both valued pathways to securing employment and to a good life. And, indeed, that’s a big part of the story that we’ve been telling about the promise of Fee-Free TAFE. It’s opening doors that have been closed to too many people through rewarding work that can [lay the foundations for] a decent life and a happy life, too.

JOURNALIST: And on vocational education in schools, so for those year 10, year 11 and year 12 students that want to take up a vocational pathway early, would you encourage state and territory governments to be adopting that as much as possible and really trying to ramp that up?

GILES: One of the things that I’ve been really determined to do is to work in close partnership with the states and territories and I met with ministers from around the country in Melbourne on Friday to discuss this. There are different approaches in different states and territories to this issue of how we deal with trades training and vocational education within the school setting. What I want to do is to make sure that we are around the country opening as many doors as possible so that people can better appreciate the career options that are open to them. There are particular issues, obviously, with ensuring that doors are opened to younger women in trades that have traditionally been dominated by men. Same could equally be said of some of the sectors of the economy where work has overwhelmingly been feminised. I want to make sure that within our schooling system, whether it’s about careers, whether it’s about more formalised pathways, we are opening doors and not closing them.

JOURNALIST: What about the idea of going back to the past to have free university, could that ever be imagined?

GILES: Well, I’m rather more focused on the future than the past. And what I would say is that the arrangements that we have had in place for some time – noting that we’re grappling with some design issues and changes, and I’m really pleased to see the efforts we’ve taken to wipe off a large amount of student debt. What I’m concerned to do is to ensure that every educational pathway is equally open to every Australian. That’s true of our education system at universities, but it’s equally got to be true of vocational education.

JOURNALIST: Particularly things like HECS debts and so on, some students, particularly [indistinct] paying exorbitant amounts of money for their degrees. Is there any thought to reviewing that?

GILES: Well, we’re doing quite a bit of reviewing of the higher education sector, and I’m sure you’ll have an opportunity to talk to Minister Clare about that. I assure you that we are making sure that we have a university sector that is functioning in the national interest and which is opening up as many doors as possible to as many students as possible for their own benefit but also so we can meet the skills challenges of the future. I’m here today to talk a little bit about that when it comes to my own portfolio responsibilities and ensuring that every Australian, be they young Australians or older Australians thinking about change, have every opportunity to get the skills they want to meet the challenges of our economy into the future. Thanks very much, everyone.