Interview with Nic Healey - ABC Victoria Statewide Mornings
NIC HEALEY, HOST: But look, this morning, and I mentioned it earlier, the Federal Minister for Skills and Trade, Andrew Giles, is in Morwell talking up careers, talking up jobs in the clean energy sector. Because one of the things we're constantly told about the renewable transition is that there will be jobs attached to it. Now, the focus today is on women in the energy sector. It's the launch of the Powering Her Pathways project designed to boost the amount of women working in that workforce. And Minister, a very good morning to you.
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Good morning to you, Nic. Great to be speaking with you.
HEALEY: When we talk clean energy, what sort of jobs are we talking about?
GILES: There are so many jobs out there. The opportunities in net zero are enormous. We're around 32 or perhaps 42,000 electrical workers short alone in transmission work and work associated with batteries, and of course in rewiring our nation, our communities more broadly. These jobs are largely also located in regional Australia, which is why it's so important that I'm here in Morwell today.
HEALEY: I want to be clear, are these jobs that already exist? Are these jobs of the future that we need to train for now, a mix of both?
GILES: It is a mix of both. So there are jobs out there right now, and it's about also recognising something else that's going on in our workforce at the moment. We know we've got skill shortages right across the board, but those shortages are really concentrated in those areas of our economy, our labour force where there's a big skew in terms of gender, and clean energy is one of those. Only one in six jobs in this industry, in this growing industry, is currently being done by women, and that goes down to 6 percent when it comes to some of the trade apprenticeships. So it's about recognising we've got this challenge to build a workforce that we need to support our national goals, but also to open up more opportunities for women to be part of this.
HEALEY: Minister, I want to come back the increase of women in the sector in a second. I just also want to ask one thing, talking about these jobs – are they all ongoing jobs? Because we tend to see some of these be temporary during construction or building phase.
GILES: These are more the energy jobs than the construction jobs that we're talking about. There are some connected with transmission construction, but most of these are ongoing jobs.
HEALEY: Why is it so important to you that we get more women in this sector then?
GILES: There are two reasons. One, our view as a Government, and my view as a minister, is we should make sure that every job is equally open to every member of our community, that people aren't held back from pursuing their dreams because of a stereotype or some other barrier. The second reason is the point I made earlier, that we've got skills shortages right across the economy, but they are particularly concentrated in those areas where there's been a historical skew towards one gender or the other.
So there's a really important national interest as well as that principle-based job that says we've got to break down the barriers that have been holding back women from getting into clean energy, and for that matter, men getting into nursing or primary teaching.
HEALEY: What are you specifically targeting with Powering Her Pathways? How are you going to encourage this change?
GILES: Importantly, this is a community-led partnership that we are supporting with around $1 million of the Commonwealth investment through the Building Women's Careers Program. So I want to give a big shout-out to Tradeswomen Australia, a fantastic organisation, and the partnership they've established with TAFE Gippsland down here and ENGIE, the operators, to make sure that we can work out a couple of things. Firstly, to better understand the barriers that have been preventing from women getting into the industry and staying in the industry.
We also want to make sure that the training is appropriate, and that's going to be about piloting some arrangements with women down here, but also thinking about what best practice looks like, because this is about Morwell, but it's also about building a clearer understanding about how we can break down more barriers so that more women can have the opportunity to participate in the opportunities of this industry.
HEALEY: What are the barriers you want to see taken away?
GILES: There are some which are just cultural, I think, that have said that being involved in the electricity industry is roles that historically have been associated with men. So it's about hearing directly from women who have been the pathfinders, the pathbreakers in this industry, letting them tell and share their stories so that young women or perhaps women thinking about a career change can understand that this is an option for them. It's also about thinking about what are the flexibilities that we might need to think about in both the training offer, but also in building careers that work for everyone, not just the model that's been in existence up to this point in time.
HEALEY: Minister, we've got a new report out today, Sydney Uni, talking about the adversity that women still face in the construction sector – inflexible conditions. I think there was phrasing talking about becoming pregnant or looking for parental leave as being career-ending – still very focused on a jobs-for-blokes attitude. How do we make sure that that doesn't become part of the issue in the energy sector as well?
GILES: Yeah, these are really concerning reports. And as it happens, yesterday, I was with my colleague, Minister Rishworth, and also the Housing Minister, Minister O'Neil, meeting with employer and union representatives in construction to discuss exactly these issues, how we need to make sure that we are doing absolutely everything that's possible to build a culture that is safe and welcoming in all industries. Issues obviously apply in construction. We have been working to address them, including, of course, by placing the CFMEU in administration.
When it comes to clean energy, I don't presume that we deal with the same issues, but we've got to recognise the fact if only one in six people are currently women in the industry, we've got to ask why. And in particular, we've got to ask the women who have been involved in the industry about their experiences, the barriers that they have experienced and how we can work around them, and also think about how we can engage young people by understanding what it is that's saying to someone this is a job for me or this isn't a job for me.
HEALEY: I mean, surely one of the biggest issues is not just the attracting of people to this industry but the retaining of them once they're there.
GILES: Yeah, well, that's critical at every level. We want people to start, for example, trade apprenticeships, women in particular, but we also want to make sure they finish them. So some of the points that you made in construction apply equally to every industry, whether there are arrangements that recognise that inflexible start and finish times, for example, inflexible locations of work, outdated attitudes to pregnancy. All of these things need to be addressed. Now, there isn't going to be one answer, but the question really for this project, which of course is led by people in this community, is about understanding how do we bridge these barriers?
How do we make sure that some of the things that we know about, the issues that I've just been talking about, particularly around pregnancy and reproductive rights and health, can be dealt with, but also, what are the issues that perhaps we're not seeing? And that's why the regions are so important here because some of the barriers in Morwell, for example, will be different than in Melbourne when it comes perhaps to access to childcare, as just one example.
HEALEY: I'm speaking with Andrew Giles. He’s the Federal Skills and Training Minister. And Minister, I know you need to move on soon, but a few people have been texting in, and when it comes to jobs in clean energy, they're saying things like, ‘there are three wind farms in my area, there's only three full-time jobs for those farms’. There seems to be a perception that these jobs do not exist at a level that makes a difference to the community.
GILES: Again, I won't speak to any particular individual circumstances, but I'd ask people to have a look at the work that's being done by Jobs and Skills Australia, which has identified an enormous shortage of good jobs in the region. We know we need tens of thousands of more electrical workers in Australia to meet our net zero ambitions and to enable the electrification of large chunks of our economy. It's something that I'm concerned about. It's something the industry is concerned about. And in particular, I want to make sure that every Australian has an equal opportunity to be part of this transformation.
HEALEY: Very quickly, Free TAFE, I understand we're seeing some pretty strong numbers out of regional Victoria people taking up that option.
GILES: Yeah, fantastic. It's been terrific to see the take-up in regional Victoria. And some of the barriers that have held people back, I mean, previously to do an enrolled nursing diploma would have cost someone $17,000. So that's obviously been a huge barrier that's held people back from realising their ambitions. Regional Victoria have really picked up the ball and run with it when it comes to Free TAFE. It's something that I'm really looking forward to chatting to TAFE Gippsland in a minute about to see what they are seeing on the ground, particularly seeing different people who've had the opportunity to participate in TAFE who've been held back.
Around the country, more than one in three Free TAFE enrolments have been in the regions. So we're seeing a fantastic opportunity being opened up that was previously closed for people to get fantastic skills in community development, in nursing, in early childhood education, and, of course, in the traditional trades as well.
HEALEY: Minister, appreciate your time this morning. Thank you. Andrew Giles is the Federal Skills and Training Minister in Morwell this morning, looking at attracting more women to the clean energy sector, the Powering Her Pathways project.