Interview with Murray Jones - 4CA Breakfast
MURRAY JONES, HOST: Well, joining us for Breakfast here in Cairns this morning, he’s a Federal Minister, and good to actually have Andrew Giles in studio for the first time, Federal Minister for Skills and Training. Good morning, Andrew. Nice to have you on board this morning.
ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Murray, great to be here. Great to be in the studio with you.
JONES: A little bit different to Melbourne, I should imagine, temperature-wise at the moment.
GILES: Yeah, I've got a jumper packed for when I hop off the plane tonight.
JONES: Well, it's been a bit rough down there the last couple of days. Now, I spent about two hours on Thursday Island, but I believe just yesterday, actually, was it yesterday, that you were up at Thursday Island and spent some time with the Acting Prime Minister Richard Marles and Matty Smith, our local member. But you were actually laying a wreath. Tell me a little bit more about what you did yesterday.
GILES: Look, to go to Thursday Island, again, it's a very long way from where I'm from in Melbourne, but obviously the connection between the Torres Strait and Cairns is very profound. So to be able to go up there with Richard as the Acting Prime Minister and Matt Smith, who spends a lot of time up in the islands, it was very special. And part of it was the Acting Prime Minister recognising the service and sacrifice of Torres Strait Islanders. And it was very moving to hear the story of commitment to defending Australia that goes back in many families through several generations. So in addition to some of the things that are more connected to my job in skills and training, it was a very special experience to recognise the service and sacrifice, both in the past, but also ongoing in terms of the critical role many Torres Strait Islanders play as reservists now.
JONES: And it really is an incredible place geographically, and getting the ferry across to Thursday Island. Eddie Mabo originally from up in that part of the world as well. So a very significant place in so many ways. I was keen to talk to you a little bit more about some of the things that you've been doing just in recent times, and particularly with some of our First Nations people. Literacy for Life Foundation, with a real focus on foundation skills for literacy, language and numeracy. And even in NAPLAN results, and we're talking about obviously a lot more juniors in relation to this, those foundational things, it's something that the educational system, whether it's through the digital technologies we've got these days, when it comes to those foundations of numeracy and literacy, we're failing in so many ways. So it's good to see it's a program here specifically for particularly First Nations people.
GILES: Murray, look, obviously there's a lot of debate about the NAPLAN results, and I think what we can say is that there are some encouraging signs in there, and we're seeing the benefit of needs-based school funding that David Gonski represented a long time ago. That and the reforms that my friend Jason Clare has led around the country, we are seeing real improvement. So it's not just the Commonwealth providing more money, it's money that is delivering reforms. And, of course, those reforms also relate to the importance of early education, making sure that when children are starting school they've had the benefit of the best start in education and care.
From my point of view, I'm really concerned about the fact that perhaps one in five adult Australians haven't got those foundation skills that we should have helped them to get. And it's not too late for anyone to start, and that's what some of these programs are all about. It was really inspiring to meet with a group of people at the Literacy for Life Foundation here in Cairns, some older women in particular who'd had the courage to say, ‘I haven't got the skills that I'd like for myself and to demonstrate to my children.’ Because it's pretty brave in your 30s to put your hand up and say, ‘my literacy isn't what it should be for me.’ It's none of these people's fault. It's our fault, as you said, that we haven't provided every Australian with the tools to get a good job, but also to get by in so many aspects of life. So these programs which give people respect, which give them their dignity as they build their skills, are really important because we know that right now, pretty much any job requires high-level literacy and numeracy, and increasingly digital skills too. So I'm really focused on making sure that every Australian gets every chance to fill their potential, and obviously we need to look specifically at the circumstance of our First Peoples.
JONES: And it's very sobering for a lot of parents and grandparents when it comes to that particular point, when the kids ask for a bit of help with the homework and it's suddenly, ‘oh, no, I can't do Year 5, Year 6 English and Maths.’ So, yeah, I think that's really important. Obviously, as part of your role as the Minister for Skills and Training, also a lot of focus on apprentices, and I believe that you've been spending some time with some apprentices and probably will so today. And, of course, good to see that so many younger people are really getting engaged in some of those opportunities and those pathways. You know, there are obviously good alternatives to university, and I guess that's been one of the real focuses of your visit as well.
GILES: Definitely. I mean, nine in 10 new jobs in Australia right now require a qualification. I think parents and young people get that. What perhaps they don't appreciate is that nearly half of those jobs don't require a degree. It's a vocational qualification like an apprenticeship. We know that so many of the things that we really need to see happen, building homes, caring for our youngest and oldest people, working in the healthcare sector, so many tech jobs, they require a vocational qualification. And particularly those delivered through an apprenticeship, we're really focused on helping more Australians, young Australians in particular, but older job changers too, to get into, but more importantly, through an apprenticeship. Because one of the other big challenges is apprenticeship completion rates haven't been where we need them to be. That's been a big focus of a lot of our programs from putting pre-apprenticeship courses, for example, on Free TAFE so people can get a head start and work out whether a particular trade is right for them. But also through programs like our Key Apprenticeship Program, the $10,000 incentive, particularly targeted apprentices with jobs in clean energy or in housing construction to help them get through, because we also know cost of living pressures are biting hard, and we don't want anyone to drop out because of an unexpected bill or some challenge like that with the cost of tools.
JONES: And such a change just in the territory and the environment when it comes to vocational skills. I mean, we won't go into the AI aspects that are certainly changing the environment, but certainly some changes. So I guess the ability for TAFE and people that deliver these services to be able to pivot, and changes to those ever-changing needs of the community as well.
GILES: That's right. I mean, what I'd say to young people or someone thinking about a career change is that there has never been a better time than now to be up the tools and to become a tradie. There's lots of work out there, and also it's really satisfying work. I remember being here a little while ago and a young man telling me he wanted to point to the building he was working on to his kids in the future and say, ‘I built that.’ The dream about the lives that people will have in that home or in that child care centre, which I was at yesterday or the day before. So I think talking about the contribution people can make and the fact that there are so many opportunities for good, secure, well-paid jobs secured through that apprenticeship pathway.
JONES: And it's interesting – I always encouraged my 23-year-old son to go to university like I did, and university wasn't going to work for him. He's become a carpenter, and we recently helped him with his tax and his income's higher than mine, so he's doing pretty well.
GILES: That's a good story. You and I are both ex-lawyers, Murray, so perhaps we should reflect on choices that we've made. But there are, what we think we need to do is to say to the community from government, but it's a conversation around kitchen tables as well, that there shouldn't be a plan A and a plan B, university or something else. These are two equal pathways, and the right choice is the right choice for you. That's something that we need to turn around right across the community, because vocational education, whether it's through a TAFE course perhaps leading to work in early childhood education, or whether it's an apprenticeship to becoming an electrician or a carpenter like your son, these are fantastic jobs that make a real contribution and enable people to live great lives.
JONES: There's no doubt about that. And I think that example that I gave is proof of exactly what you're talking about there. Great to talk to you, and I know you've got a few apprentices to go and see today, and a busy time as well. So thanks for dropping in. Enjoy a bit of sunshine here in Tropical North Queensland. Get those jumpers ready for the trip back to Melbourne. Andrew Giles, Federal Minister for Skills and Training, have a wonderful day and thank you so much for dropping in this morning.
GILES: Thanks very much, Murray. Great to be here.
ENDS