Interview with Kylie Baxter - ABC Tasmania Statewide Drive

KYLIE BAXTER, HOST: Andrew Giles is the Federal Minister for Skills and Training and happens to be, right now, I believe he is in Burnie or maybe he's in Wynyard. Minister, a very good afternoon. Thanks for joining me.

ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Great to be with you, Kylie. I'm in Wynyard having spent the day in Burnie.

BAXTER: Fantastic. So first of all, what did actually bring you to Tasmania?

GILES: Well, all the things you've just been talking about – Free TAFE and, of course, the changes we've made to reduce student debt. It's been absolutely fantastic to talk to some students at UTAS in Burnie about what the changes will mean to them, taking 20 per cent off their HECS debt, a real difference to their ability to keep studying and to realise their dreams for the future. And I've also been talking to a heap of Free TAFE students, just some of the around 9,000 Tasmanians who've benefited from Free TAFE to get skills that they want to do some of the jobs that we really need doing.

BAXTER: And so just for clarity, can everyone who wants to go to TAFE to do any course whatsoever go for free, or is it limited to certain courses?

GILES: It's limited to certain courses. Because what we're trying to do through Free TAFE is to link skills and training to where there are gaps in the labour market, to make sure that people can train or retrain. One of the things I was really interested to see is that about 800 of the Tasmanian enrolments in Free TAFE are people who are over 55. So, this is about lifelong learning as well as getting your foot in the door with your first job. But it's not about any course. It's about those courses agreed between us and the state governments that lead to good, secure jobs.

BAXTER: And what are some of those courses? Because I bet there's people listening right now going, ‘I didn't fully realise that there were some Free TAFE courses going on.’ You know, it takes a bit of time to catch up on the news cycle sometimes. So, what sort of things could people go to TAFE and, you know, walk away without any level of debt?

GILES: Well, definitely some of the things that have been really popular have been early childhood education and care, aged care, individual support. Some of the agriculture-related courses are popular in Tasmania, less popular in my part of Melbourne, I'd have to say, Kylie. And of course, a lot of construction-related courses so that we can get on with making sure we are building all of the houses that Australians need.

BAXTER: Now, aged care a big issue in Tasmania and it is hard to get staff, so have you seen big enrolments in TAFE in relation to aged care?

GILES: Yeah, there have been. And I had the privilege of being part of a class at TasTAFE Burnie, an aged care class. A real variety of students – a mum returning to the workforce, some younger people and some people retraining. Because I guess they see a few things, they see a job that they can make a contribution, they can really feel the difference they're making to people's lives. And of course, since coming to Government, the Albanese Government have lifted wages in the sector to make it more attractive.

I think people there also see progression. There are various roles you can do, from personal care to nursing, into managerial roles. So, I think there's an opportunity not just to get a job that makes a difference, but to think about a career in aged care, which obviously, is a growing sector in demand in Tasmania and indeed around the country.

BAXTER: My guest is the Federal Minister for Skills and Training, Andrew Giles, and you're listening to 936 ABC Radio Hobart and ABC Northern Tasmania. Now, we know that we need more nurses, midwives, doctors, especially GPs and other essential workers in Tasmania. So, what can be done to address this need, Minister?

GILES: Well, there's plenty things we need to do. I mean, these are shortages that didn't begin yesterday or the day before yesterday, so we've got to make some structural changes – Free TAFE is a significant part of it. In other parts of the country, we've seen huge demand for places as enrolled nurses to bridge that nursing shortfall. I think there's a bit more we can do in that regard in Tasmania. Thinking about how we can open up more GP training places is also a big focus of my colleague, Minister Butler. Because making sure that we've got the health workforce for the future is absolutely critical, and thinking about all the incentives that can get more people into general practice, which has really, again, been a big focus of Minister Butler's work.

BAXTER: Now, we know that the HECS debt has been reduced following the last few weeks in Parliament, but could we possibly see indexation of student debt cut? We know the Greens have been pushing for this. Is it a possibility in your opinion?

GILES: We've already made some changes to indexation arrangements last year. And indeed, we've also made changes to the repayment threshold so that someone, for example, on $70,000 will be paying a lesser proportion or be required to pay a lesser proportion of their debt now. In terms of the broader remit here, I think there is a lot of longer-term work to be done.

Something that we established as of 1 July was the Australian Tertiary Education Commission, and what I think we really need is a more expert body to give us a greater evidentiary basis around the setting of fees and related matters rather than simply to be reactive. But what we've been focused on with this step is to deliver some immediate cost of living relief to young Australians, and indeed some not so young Australians, so that they can focus on studying while not falling victim to cost of living pressures. So, it's one step, a big step, but obviously, there is more policy work to be done.

BAXTER: Karen from Brighton has called into the program and has a question for you, Minister. Karen, good afternoon. What’s your question?

KAREN, CALLER: Hi, Kylie. Thanks for that. Hi, Minister. I'm an interior designer. I'm actually tertiary trained, but I know that interior designers can also be vocationally trained. As of late, I'm not sure whether you're aware, but we have had significant trouble as we've been locked out of the building design practitioners framework. And so, we have nearly 19,000 people, 80 per cent of whom are women, that are fully trained and have paid all their fees and HECS, and we've been locked out of the system by the Federal Government. And I just wondered what you thought was the best step for us going forward. What do we do?

BAXTER: What do you recommend, Minister?

GILES: Well, one thing I probably shouldn't do is provide advice for you in dealing with the Government, of which I'm a member, in terms of those sorts of circumstances. But Karen, what I would suggest rather than give advice over the phone is that you make an appointment with me and we sit down and work through the consequences of what you say is your exclusion from this framework for you and members of, I'm not sure if it's a professional organisation or whether you're speaking just as a member of the profession.

CALLER: I'm just a member of the profession. I believe there are definitely professional organisations –

BAXTER: Well, how about this? We could put you guys in touch. It sounds as though the Minister is prepared to work through this with you. Are you happy, Karen, if my producer –

CALLER: That sounds great. That would be amazing. Yes, thank you.

BAXTER: Fantastic. Thank you. Well, that's great. Karen holding the line there, and we'll get her details, Minister. Just before we finish up, I just want to know, are we seeing more females in the trade sector, and should we be doing more to encourage women into this space doing TAFE courses?

GILES: Well, the answer to both those questions is yes, Kylie. I mean, I really think, and it's a very strong view across our Government, we've got to make every job equally available to every member of our community. And the sad fact is that for too long, too many women have been excluded from roles that they've been quite interested in, in some of those trades that have stereotypically been male-dominated. And I was really pleased to be taken by my friend and colleague, Anne Urquhart, to a plumbing business, a family-owned plumbing business in Burnie this afternoon, Kiely Plumbing, to chat with a young female apprentice, but also to think about the work that the owner's done – publishing a book, kind of a tribute to his daughters, about how more women get into that trade.

As a Government, we're committed to programs that open up more trades to more members of the community, particularly women. We've got to think about role modelling. We've got to think about the barriers that have held people back. We've got to listen to people's experiences, the good and the bad, and think about making structural change. Because one thing that we do know is that every job that's in shortage in Australia has a really big gender skew. So if we're only looking at half the population, it's going to make it so much harder to fill those skill shortages and ease the pressure across our economy on cost of living.

BAXTER: And just finally, Minister, what's the weather like at Wynyard Airport or in Wynyard right now? You're about to fly back to Melbourne, I'm assuming.

GILES: It is pretty crisp out there. It's a beautiful blue sky today, but it has been quite crisp, even for a Melburnian.

BAXTER: Well, thanks for joining me. Appreciate your time.

GILES: Cheers, Kylie. Great to chat.