Doorstop Interview, Perth

TANIA LAWRENCE, MEMBER FOR HASLUCK: I’m the Federal Member for Hasluck and joined today by the local member, Steve Catania, the Member for Midland. And of course, our two ministers, Federal Minister Andrew Giles and State Minister Amber-Jade Sanderson, both with responsibilities for Skills and TAFE. 

But Minister Amber-Jade Sanderson also for energy and decarbonisation, which is perfect for today's event. Because TAFE is an absolute foundation stone for education in Australia, and we know the opportunities it presents. 

It's where I kicked off my studies, and I know for so many people across the nation that TAFE is the game changer for creating a career and opportunities for a lifetime.

Now, with the introduction of Free TAFE, we've seen more than 111,000 students graduate in courses from nursing, aged care and, obviously, in the critical services also around the trades of electrical. 

But the big commitment that I made back in 2022 was to establish a trade-renewable training centre for the seat of Hasluck. And for this to be able to see and touch and feel what that now looks like with these wind turbines at at-heights training facility is absolutely sensational. 

A commitment of over $3 million, $3.24 million to be exact, to make this a possibility for students to be able to train in the renewable sector, which is the jobs of the future, and really well-paid ones as well. 

So from solar home batteries, which will start to form part of the network outside of the wind turbine, but then importantly, being able to actually train on these turbines, which I think we've got about 11 per cent already working in Western Australia.

And the other day we hit a record in Western Australia, which I'm sure the Minister will speak to, around 83 per cent on renewables. So this is the way of the future for creating energy within Western Australia. And we need men and women to be able to do the skills needed to keep these operational and functional. 

So I'm super, super proud to see this come to fruition and to Michelle Hoad, Managing Director of TAFE and all the team, the lecturers, the students, you can see the enthusiasm and the drive and the passion as it’s delivered, so congratulations.

ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Thanks, Tania. It's really great to be here with you, with Steve, and of course with my colleague and friend, Minister Amber-Jade Sanderson. I'm here really to talk about two things today. 

Firstly, Tania, this is a real tribute to you, your consistent advocacy, building on great work that's been led by the Cook Government, thinking about the skills needs for clean energy transition in this part of Perth, but right across WA. 

It's thanks to your advocacy and building on those strong innovations that the TAFE Technology Fund has invested $3.24 million, as you said – counting the .24 nicely! – in some really incredible nation leading facilities to train the clean energy workforce of the future and also to enable existing workers to retrain and upskill to be part of this extraordinary opportunity that's here. 

I'm told that the tower that's just around the corner, of 28 metres, is the highest for training in Australia, not that anyone is counting, Michelle. So this a really wonderful facility and it will make a huge difference. 

It's been fantastic to meet with lecturers and apprentices undergoing their training and just get a sense of what it means to their training journey and what an investment made by a national government that's working really closely with the state government can do to address critical skills, and it's opening the doors of opportunity. 

And that takes me really to the broader relationship that we have in the Albanese Government federally with the Cook Labor Government here in WA, and in particular the close working relationship I enjoy with Amber-Jade Sanderson.

Today, we're also announcing $113 million in joint investment that's going to make a real difference, opening more opportunities to more West Australians to start courses and critically to finish them. 

These investments tackle a range of persistent challenges in our training system, working on making sure that more people can access appropriate foundational supports so that they feel confident in their learning and can maybe address some issues that have come to them that didn't arise in the course of their former schooling, particularly in the case of low-year enrolments.

There's deep investment in Closing the Gap in forming more partnerships to ensure that we are delivering culturally safe learning to First Nations Australians. There’s work around boosting our teacher workforce, because that's absolutely critical. 

We know how important our teachers and trainers at TAFE and across the VET system are. We know there's more to be done to build that workforce. And the last element of this partnership that really has crystallised today is about supporting more Western Australians to get through their training journey. 

We know we just need more people to start their apprenticeship or their time in TAFE. We need to make sure that people get all the support they need to finish. We know that not everyone has a smooth journey through their work. We know that people often find that issues in other aspects of their life interfere with their learning journey or they just need additional support.

This package today that we've worked through with Minister Sanderson is about recognising that and giving everyone every chance to complete their learning journey. 

It happened at a time when we were making really big steps forward. The National Skills Agreement has been an absolute game changer thanks to the close relationship between our Government and the WA Government here. 

I'm really looking forward to hearing from Amber-Jade shortly.

The other thing I want to touch upon is another big part of our relationship is the partnership that's delivering for TAFE. When I arrived in Perth on Monday, a big sign outside of my hotel flashed up about this and was inviting all West Australians to get on board. 

So Amber-Jade, thank you for that welcoming party. I hope that comes around next time too. But I do want to highlight that we have new data which demonstrates now 725,000 Australians have enrolled in Free TAFE courses, in courses that lead to good careers in jobs that we need doing.

We’ve seen a real uptick, in particular, in construction related courses, which is really pleasing to see. We’ve seen more than 210,000 Australians complete their qualifications and get on the jobs. 

This shows what we can do when we’ve got governments of both levels focused on ensuring that every Australian can get the skills that they want to do the jobs that they need. I'm really pleased to be able to do this work with you.

AMBER-JADE SANDERSON, WESTERN AUSTRALIAN MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TAFE: Thank you to Minister Giles and to the Commonwealth Government for their continued partnership and investment in our TAFE and training sector. 

We are very, very proud of our TAFE sector in Western Australia, and very happy to invite more and more Western Australians to come and train in high quality, well-paying jobs. You can see from these facilities that we're also investing in our facilities to make sure that we've got state of the art facilities, good quality areas for people to actually learn on current technology. 

We've got students in there today that you've seen who are learning the new skills for today and tomorrow.

We know that wind is going to be critical to our energy transition. To exit coal by 2030, we're going to need more wind on the system. We're expecting more than a gigawatt of wind before 2030 to support our exit out of coal. 

It provides a stable generation source and provides a good mix for the grid. So we're very focused on making sure that we've got not only the infrastructure in place but the skills and the tradespeople who can actually construct and maintain all of our wind infrastructure. 

We do have some of the best wind in the world, and it's important that we're investing in the skills of the future to make sure we're harnessing fantastic resource.

From next year, more than 350 students will train at this facility, and facilities like these are replicated around the state in various states with that deep partnership with the Commonwealth and making sure that we're training up the men and women in the future and that they can access the really good and well-paying jobs. 

I do want to acknowledge the Albanese Government and their ongoing commitment to Free TAFE, but also the National Skills Agreement. This Agreement, $113 million of a $1.34 billion National Skills Agreement, is going to be critical to supporting those critical skills that we need into the future.

As we move into a low-unemployment environment, training the next generation becomes more resource-intensive, and people need different kinds of supports to be able to give them the same opportunity that others may have. 

So there is significant funding going to partnerships with Aboriginal Community Controlled Organisations and Aboriginal RTOs to partner with TAFE to ensure that TAFE is providing appropriate and culturally safe environments, but also that we're supporting those RTOs to upskill and build capacity for their communities. 

So this is a genuine Closing the Gap partnership where supporting those communities to access the jobs of the future.

There is enormous interest around the country, but particularly in Western Australia for First Nations to be part of the clean energy future. They see opportunity on their country to upskill, train their people and to manage their own power needs and supplies in their communities. 

And these sorts of partnerships with the Commonwealth deliver on that aspiration for those communities. So thank you to the Commonwealth Government for their ongoing partnership and commitment to making sure we lower the barriers to training and we give people access to the best jobs in Western Australia.

I'm happy to take questions on this, and we can go to the federal issues.

JOURNALIST: Well, on this, the funding to support completions, what is the current completion rate? And, you know, given fee-free courses, et cetera, has it been disappointing that completions are still a challenge?

SANDERSON: Look, completions are complex, particularly around apprenticeships. And the rates vary across different trades and different training areas. What we do is we look at what are the elements for success, to set up a student for success, and those are often pre-apprenticeships. 

They are access to group training organisations. It's apprenticeship support allowances and support for employers to take apprenticeships, as well as really good quality training facilities. 

They're the things that we are focusing on, whether it's adult apprenticeship training allowance for employers, whether it's supporting women in trades, whether it's supporting pre-apprenticeships, whether it's getting those career tasters out to year nines early to really spark that increase. 

So there's a range of things that impact on those completions and, of course, we're working to support many of those students. And some cohorts have different challenges. 

This Skills Agreement will help to support Aboriginal students through the training process to get them out the other end qualified and ready to work.

JOURNALIST: Training locals all well and good, but in the meantime skilled migration obviously is needed to fill the gaps in WA. The Premier's raised concerns with the Prime Minister saying he's deeply concerned that reducing WA's allotment in the current State Nominated Migration Program would damage the state's economy. That letter was sent in October. Has the state received a satisfactory response since then?

SANDERSON: Well, we'll continue to work with the Commonwealth around those migration settings. Our priority is always training local people and providing opportunities for jobs for our local community, and that's what we're doing through TAFE and access to technical training. 

There's never been a time in Australia's history, or Western Australia's history, where we haven't needed skilled migration. They are fundamental to keeping our health system working, making sure we've got teachers in the classrooms, and making sure that we're providing technical trades. 

So, our view as a Government is we don't want to see any reduction in those settings. We want to maintain the settings that we had in the last agreement, and we're working with the Commonwealth on that.

JOURNALIST: Is it disappointing that a change has even been proposed?

SANDERSON: Well, we're always working with our Commonwealth. They have their own pressures to manage and we have our own pressures to manage in the state. 

We're advocating the state's position, and our position is that the SNMP primarily supports small and medium businesses. They don't have access to the skills or the resources to be able to deal with the sponsored visa programs. 

So they really are the lifeline for small and medium businesses that support our bigger industries like the resources sector. Our view is it needs to stay as it was, but we're working with the Commonwealth on that.

JOURNALIST: I do have a couple other issues for you, but should we stick to the topic for now? Minister Giles, the SNMP, does the proposal to reduce WA’s allotment need to be scrapped? When is the decision going to be made?

GILES: You'd be aware that I'm not the Immigration Minister these days –

JOURNALIST: But you’re the Skills Minister.

GILES: Amber-Jade I think set this out very well. From our point of view, obviously, we are mindful to ensure that we have migration settings across the board reflect the national interest, the needs of our economy, which also recognise – and this is the whole purpose of the state-sponsored stream – recognise different interests and perspectives in different parts of the country. 

We're working through this, as we have done in the past – certainly, I did in robust discussions with the West Australian Government, so we'll continue those conversations.

JOURNALIST: As Skills Minister, you’ll acknowledge training takes time. The migration places are needed now, aren't they, to get these new industries going?

GILES: Well, it is more complicated than that. I'd make a couple of quick points on that. Obviously, the way in which the state scheme operates is different, as Amber-Jade set out, from the straight employer-sponsored pathway. 

So I think we should always be careful in thinking about the critical role that skills migration has played and will continue to play, that there isn't a silver bullet out there that deals with the skills crisis. It's about working on all of the levers that are available to governments at both levels to ensure that we're in the best possible position.

One of the critical issues that we've been working on together with the Cook Government is to make sure that skilled migration and domestic skill are working in the same direction. 

That was not the case under the former government for a variety of reasons. Keeping the TSMIT down to $54,000, an over preference on to temporary rather than permanent pathways, turning a blind eye to exploitation, all of these were problems, but at the same time as they cut $3 billion from TAFE and training. 

What we have been doing is to try and align the two effectively. We've put in place Jobs and Skills Australia so that we, the national government, and the Western Australian Government can have a clearer sense of what the labour market actually needs.

JOURNALIST:  How long does it take? We raised these concerns in October, there still doesn't seem to be a clear answer as to how many places WA will get, granted it's not in your portfolio’s decision –

GILES: You raised the issues last month, we’re in November. Those discussions are ongoing and you will have seen the record of the Albanese Government and the Cook Government that we work in a collaborative manner. 

We certainly recognise that Western Australians aren’t shy about putting a case. We will work closely with the Cook Government to ensure a good outcome between national interests and one that, obviously, recognises the particular circumstances of Western Australia.

JOURNALIST: You mentioned seeing from your hotel the sign for Fee-Free TAFE places. I wonder if, over in Canberra, you've seen WA's advertising about the GST, and as a Victorian, what your thoughts are on WA's GST deal?

GILES: Well, my thoughts are as a member of the Australian Government. The Prime Minister was asked about this on radio and was emphatic. Again, I don't think he signed anyone's arm on this occasion, but I think our position has been very clear.

JOURNALIST: Does that position include extending the No Worse Off Guarantee so that other states stop complaining?

GILES: Well my concern, obviously, is about making sure that the integrity of the position of the Prime Minister is articulated [indistinct] as a Government. There obviously have [indistinct] going on and I don't think me engaging in my own commentary serves that [indistinct].

JOURNALIST: I mean, it’s a matter of state pride though. Victoria's Treasurer has called WA's GST deal an unfair distortion and a significant risk to the Victorian budget. As a Victorian, are you happy with the arrangement?

GILES: I'm a member of the national government, and my concern is about ensuring that we have policies that reflect the national interest.

JOURNALIST: So does this policy reflect the national interest, and have you told Tim Pallas that?

GILES: Well, Tim Pallas is no longer the Treasurer of Victoria, so if I told him that, I don't think he'd be terribly fussed.

JOURNALIST: Maybe. Then have you told Jacinta Allan that?

GILES: Well, funnily enough, I don't, in the same way that I don't engage in running commentary on other policy matters, I don't engage in running conversations about matters outside of my portfolio, responsibilities with state premiers or treasurers.

JOURNALIST: Thank you for sharing and indulging me. AJ, can I just ask you about renewables transition, and Tania mentioned the recent record with regard to renewable supply, but more often than not, that sits between 30 and 40 per cent. 2030, are we going to make that deadline to turn off coal?

SANDERSON: Well, our renewable mix on the SWIS is about 39 to 40 per cent, so that's the baseline of the mix at the moment. On those great spring days that we've seen, where there isn't a lot of usage on household appliances and we're getting great solar output, we then peak to over 80 per cent, which is fantastic. 

And the grid is stable, and that's a lot of investment and a lot of work that's been undertaken by this Government.

We made a commitment in 2022 to exit coal by 2030. There's a number of reasons for that. The first is we want to get our emissions down. There is an environmental imperative to move from fossil fuels into renewable energies. It's also extremely expensive. Coal is extremely expensive. 

We know that wind and solar backed by batteries and gas is the lowest cost mix for households and industry. And that's why we're investing in enormous, the wind infrastructure and the skills to deliver significant amounts of wind coming into the system before 2030. 

We've got more than a gigawatt of credible wind projects to enter the system before 2030 at around ‘28, ‘29, and that's what we're working towards. But we're taking a very sensible and pragmatic approach to this policy. 

We need to maintain energy security, we need to maintain reliability, and importantly, we need to keep down the pressure on prices for industry and for households.

Now, the reason we've got this investment is because we've had a stable policy setting in Western Australia. And what I get told from international capital organisations looking to invest in renewable energies is that Western Australia is one of the best places in the world to invest in because of our stable policy settings. 

And what we've seen at the national level, and potentially with the WA Liberals, is they've thrown those policy settings out and created enormous destabilisation in that investment environment, which is future jobs. It's the jobs that these people are trained for that they're putting risk.

JOURNALIST: The Government this morning has requested the Legislative Council sit late tonight. Apparently, MPs were only given half an hour's notice. Isn't that the Government's own fault that you've left it too late to pass both the surrogacy and state development bills?

SANDERSON: Well, look, it's pretty usual at this time of year that we extend sitting times to ensure that we can pass all legislation. The Liberal Party are taking their time around the surrogacy legislation. I think that's in its fifth week of scrutiny. 

That is their right, and we will accommodate them to do that. That's also an important piece of legislation. As such, the Government would expect that everyone will continue to sit until we pass our priority pieces of legislation in the council, and my understanding is there’s agreement to do that.

JOURNALIST: Should Parliament then be sitting for more than 19 weeks next year, or are you going to run into the same problem again?

SANDERSON: Well, I think that we obviously take each circumstance as it comes with the legislative program that we have. I'm confident that that's the right setting for next year. That's still more than some other states and territories, and we've got a strong legislative agenda that we intend to pass.

JOURNALIST: Lastly, just because you would, I imagine, have some dealings with Mineral Resources in your current portfolios. Mineral Resources has, this morning, announced that the succession plan for Chris Ellison is on hold. He won't be stepping down in 2026 given that ATO is still investigating alleged tax evasion. Do you think that's wise? I mean, the Premier said Mineral Resources needs to reflect. Have they?

SANDERSON: Well, I think it's a private company, it's a listed company. I'll leave that to the directors. They will have their own due diligence to do as directors, and it's a matter for them.

JOURNALIST: One more actually, sorry, because I should just ask every single person I see. The EPA has determined not to launch a full assessment of the Burswood project given the vehement opinions about the racetrack portion of that project in particular. Wouldn’t it be better to have it fully assessed so you can avoid criticism?

SANDERSON: Well, the EPA is an independent statutory authority, it makes its own determinations. So they've obviously assessed the evidence, that it's not an environmental risk and it requires that part four assessment. That is entirely a matter for them, and they're an independent authority.

JOURNALIST: Do you think Burswood's the right site for it?

SANDERSON: Yes, I think it is. I think it's going to be a fantastic complex. It's going to create jobs, it's going to create vibrancy, and it's going to use an area of land that is very underutilised currently.

JOURNALIST: Does it only need to stick with the $217 million budget?

SANDERSON: Well, that will all be worked through internally with Government, and my understanding is that the Minister is going through the business case now.

JOURNALIST: Should the business case be released to the public?

SANDERSON: That's a matter for the Minister.

ENDS