Doorstop interview - Melbourne
SUBJECTS: Workplace safety for apprentices, importance of safe apprenticeships, instances of abuse against apprentices.
AMANDA THRELFALL, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF VICTORIAN TRADES HALL COUNCIL: My name is Amanda Threlfall, and I am the Assistant Secretary of Victorian Trades Hall Council. I'd like to acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land on which we meet. Trades Hall currently stands on the lands of the Wurundjeri people of the mighty Kulin Nation, and I pay my respects to their elders past, present and emerging. The Victorian Trades Hall Council acknowledges that this land was stolen, never ceded and always was and always will be Aboriginal land.
Welcome to Victorian Trades Hall, which I'm very proud to say is the oldest continuously functioning trade union building in the world and the perfect place for today's media event.
I would like to welcome Minister Andrew Giles, who is the Minister for Skills and Training.
MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING ANDREW GILES MP: Thanks very much, Amanda. It's great to be here at Trades Hall with you, representing the Young Workers Centre, and most importantly some young apprentices who've been telling me their stories and their hopes and aspirations.
What it really means in the Albanese Government, for us, is to recognise two things. One, that we inherited, when we came into government, the worst skills crisis in 50 years, and we are determined to do something about it. We are determined and focused on making sure that every Australian can get the skills they want that lead to a good, secure and most importantly safe job.
Apprenticeships are a really critical part of this puzzle. For too long, government policies under the Liberals and Nationals have not supported people in apprenticeships. We've seen money go to corporations instead of supporting people making a decision to learn the trade and earn while they're learning.
We've seen some shocking stories in the recent past, including a plumbing apprentice locked in a toolbox. We can't ignore these stories, the impact they have on individuals, but also the impact they have on others who are thinking about taking on a skilled trade, especially in areas like manufacturing and construction, where the majority of issues that have affected young apprentices have taken place.
In our Government we are taking a zero tolerance approach to any abuse of a person undertaking an apprenticeship. We're doing it because, of course, every worker deserves to be safe, every worker deserves to be respected, and we need to support people to get the skills they want in areas we need like in manufacturing, like in the electrical trades, like in construction so we can meet our national objectives.
The apprentices here today have taken a big step for themselves and a big step for our country in getting the skills they want. They need governments that are on their side, and the Albanese Government most definitely is.
I've written to and got the support of every state and territory Minister to change the Code of Conduct for apprentices to make sure that every employer who takes on an apprentice is doing the right thing.
There is so much more to do when it comes to meeting our skills crisis and supporting young people who are making their way in the world of work, particularly apprentices who are vulnerable as they are learning their trade and are particularly responsible to the person who's employing them.
But we choose to back them in much the same way as we take every step to upskill young Australians, and older Australians changing their careers through access to secure Free TAFE, which means so much for apprentices and so many more.
On the other hand, with Peter Dutton you won't get Free TAFE, all he's offering is bosses a free lunch.
I'll hand over now to representatives of the Young Workers Centre, and hear particularly from Angus, a young apprentice, about his story.
AMANDA THRELFALL: We strongly commend the Albanese Labor Government for committing to improve apprentice safety. Every worker deserves to be valued and respected at work without exception. But for too long apprentices have been at the mercy of dodgy bosses, and we've heard far too many horror stories of abuse, neglect, disrespect and denial of basic rights.
Around half of apprentices in Australia do not complete their apprenticeship because of exploitation and mistreatment at work, [indistinct] complaints of bullying and harassment, unsafe workplace practices. Apprentices are also subjected to low wages and need a wage that they can live on. Apprenticeship reform is long overdue.
We are hopeful that today's announcement will result in stronger regulation, safer workplaces for all apprentices and cultural change. A successful apprenticeship system means that we have sufficient and highly trained trades people to meet the demands of industry and the future.
Apprentices can be proud that today we are one step closer to winning justice and safer workplaces. We are thrilled that both the Albanese Labor Government and the Allan Labor Government have taken steps to deliver greater scrutiny of apprenticeships.
We look forward to working with the Albanese Labor Government to create safe workplaces for every apprentice.
I'll now hand over to Felicity Sowerbutts who is the Director of the Young Workers Centre.
FELICITY SOWERBUTTS, DIRECTOR OF THE YOUNG WORKERS CENTRE MELBOURNE: For many years young workers and apprentices have been reaching out to the Young Workers Centre in huge numbers when faced with workplace issues, issues including unsafe work practices, bullying and harassment, unpaid wages and unpaid TAFE fees.
An apprenticeship should be the start of a longer rewarding career in a trade or industry that you love, but sadly that's rarely the case for too many apprentices. The start of a working life and the dreams and aspirations of too many young workers and apprentices are being shattered by negligent and irresponsible employers.
This has to change. This is a systemic issue. The system must change. We're thrilled that the Albanese Labor Government is today committing to hold employers to account and keep apprentices safe at work and ensure that they are treated fairly. Far too many apprentices are being mistreated by their employer, one after another they're churning through apprentices and exploiting and mistreating one apprentice after another.
This is an important win for young workers. For years apprentices have been coming together to speak up, bravely share their stories in the media and organise community support to demand safety, dignity, fairness and respect at work. This shows that when apprentices and young workers come together, they can win big.
JOURNALIST: Yeah, I was just going to say, we've heard the Minister talking about, I guess upgrades to both conducts across the States. Where have the shortcomings been in those [indistinct]?
SOWERBUTTS: Yeah, we're really pleased that the Albanese Labor Government and the Allan Labor Government are taking action to hold employers to account. At the moment they're getting away with mistreating and exploiting one apprentice after another. They move on and they hire another apprentice, and we see the same happen time and time again.
We see apprentices reach out to the Young Workers Centre, and who have been at the same employer, and clearly it's a systemic issue, and that's ‑ yeah, recurring across the state and across the country as well.
JOURNALIST: [Indistinct] I guess these changes are [indistinct] will have a genuine impact in the workplace, do you think?
SOWERBUTTS: Yeah, I strongly believe that higher scrutiny of employers taking on apprentices will mean that they can't simply get away with mistreating one after another, they won't be able to underpay their workers and not give them sufficient training, bullying and harassment.
JOURNALIST: [Indistinct].
SOWERBUTTS: Yeah, I can't remember where I was going with that. And yeah, I strongly believe the higher scrutiny of employers who are employing apprentices will mean that they can no longer underpay their workers, mistreat them, bully and harass them. It will mean that there are eyes on these employers who at the moment are churning through one apprentice after another, and that's no way any apprentice should start their working life.
JOURNALIST: From a financial perspective, in terms of the subsidies that are available both for an apprentice and for an employer who takes one on, is $5,000 a significant amount, and is that going to lead to, do you think, I guess apprentices feeling like they have enough funds to live and also for employers to, I guess, cover costs that they need to cover through employing apprentices?
SOWERBUTTS: It's really tough for apprentices out there at the moment, as we know the cost-of-living is making it really hard for all workers. Every little bit helps in terms of being able to put food on the table and a roof over your head. It is, like I said, really hard for apprentices who are on very low wages as it is and then are often underpaid and experience wage theft on top of that, so every subsidy and support and incentive to encourage an apprentice to commence in an apprenticeship, but also to take them through those three or four years and then move on to a qualified wage, yeah, [indistinct] is really supportive of that.
JOURNALIST: I'm not sure you might be best placed to answer this but are one of you able to speak to, I guess, the rates of drop out of this [indistinct] apprentices.
SOWERBUTTS: I can make a short comment as well. Across the country we see really low apprentice completion rates, and we know from surveying and from research that that's because of the experience that apprentices have in the workplace. It's not the education that they're receiving at TAFE, it's the experience that they're having in the workplace. So it's things like bullying and harassment, it's the underpayment of their wages and unsafe physical conditions as well which are driving apprentices suddenly away from their apprenticeships.
JOURNALIST: [Indistinct].
GILES: Yeah, no worries. What we know is that four in five apprentices who don't complete their apprenticeship, it's their decision, not that of their employer, and that tells us we've got to be listening to the experiences of people who are undertaking apprenticeships and recognise all of the issues that my friend from the Young Workers Centre has been saying.
That's been a big focus of the work that we have been doing. In contrast to the former government, which has really only focused on effective wage subsidies, we've been looking at all of the reasons that support people going into an apprenticeship, all of the reasons that enable them to successfully complete, including of course giving that fundamental assurance of safety and respect over the course of it.
JOURNALIST: In terms of strengthening those Codes of Conduct across the states, has that been able to be enacted? Can you talk to us about what that real impact is and what possibilities are there for workers, employers and workplaces to be held to account?
GILES: Definitely. I mean this is a process that we have to go through, and we recognise that there are so many people who have great experiences through their apprenticeship, and we want to encourage more people to undertake this fantastic earn-and-learn pathway, which is so fundamental to so many of the skills that are desperately needed across our economy right now and which can lead to great secure and more paid workers.
But in that period of apprenticeship, there needs to be a real focus on the needs of the apprentice, to put a real effort both in supporting apprentices to get into priority areas and supporting them through that with real arrangements around mentoring and other supports.
But what this will do is two things: it will send a really clear signal right across the community that every apprentice will be supported and valued at work, and those employers who don't pay will not be able to continue to undertake the practices that have been highlighted. It will also enable us to have a conversation, so we better appreciate all of the issues that are impacting our apprentices.
JOURNALIST: What powers are there or regulations in place that can hold sort of employers accountable, doing the whole thing when it comes to account and what sanctions can be sort of put in effect?
GILES: There are some existing powers, and one of the things that we've been very focused on is working closely with the Fair Work Ombudsman to understand the expertise that they can bring.
I'm standing here with some representatives of the relevant trade unions and the role that they play is obviously absolutely critical, particularly in areas like manufacturing and construction, which have obviously been a real focus of some of the issues that we have been talking about today.
But we need to keep looking at what we're learning and keep listening to the lived experience of young people undertaking apprenticeships to make sure, firstly, that our laws are adequate, and secondly, that we have all of the resources available to see that they are important and seen to be important.
ANGUS LEECH: Hi, my name's Angus. I'm a boilermaker by trade. I went straight into my apprenticeship at the age of 16, straight out of Year 10. Now I'm working for the Young Workers Centre as an outreach organiser.
JOURNALIST: Just tell us, when you came through as an apprentice, what did you see in the workplace, I guess, in relation to safety and feeling comfortable in the workplace?
ANGUS: Yeah, sure. So, I think it's sort of no big secret that anyone who's done an apprenticeship will tell you that close calls and accidents are sort of part of the job, so to speak. If you just look at the statistics of OH&S of young workers, you'll see just how prevalent that is.
JOURNALIST: I guess was that your experience with different work sites across, you know, what sorts of things did you see?
ANGUS: Absolutely. So I didn't just stick with one company, I've been through more than I can count on two hands, so I think it was a pretty common story across the board for sure.
JOURNALIST: So more than, you know, two hands, that's a lot of companies to do an apprenticeship, I mean was that due to, I guess, not feeling safe and not feeling like the employer was meeting your needs?
ANGUS: Sorry, can I go back on that?
JOURNALIST: Sure.
ANGUS: It was 10 companies, not through the apprenticeship, so ‑‑
JOURNALIST: Okay.
ANGUS: Yeah, yeah.
JOURNALIST: Do you see that, I guess, with apprentices changing businesses, changing employers?
ANGUS: Yeah, absolutely. So, unfortunately, it's across ‑ it's not just an industry thing, it's across all industries, I believe, that ‑ yeah, that these issues arise, particularly with young workers.
I think that's due to a couple of reasons, particularly not feeling like they have a voice or often being met with sort of ‑ being dissuaded from being truthful, I suppose, about their experience, I think that's very common, so-
JOURNALIST: In terms of making meaningful change to that, what can be done to make that meaningful change?
ANGUS: Yeah, absolutely. So I think supporting these apprentices in any manner possible, particularly in terms of whistle-blowing, being able to speak out on some issues that they face day‑to‑day, yeah, without being ‑ without being dissuaded, be encouraged, so [indistinct].
JOURNALIST: Is there a long way to go in that space in terms of [indistinct] speaking up on mistreatment?
ANGUS: Absolutely. So it's something that I only really noticed after I completed my apprenticeship of just how much I could have spoken out. I had the power to speak out, but I just felt intimidated, I suppose, not to.
JOURNALIST: Is the culture changing?
ANGUS: I think so, slowly. Unfortunately probably not fast enough.
JOURNALIST: So there is still a long way to go?
ANGUS: Yes, a long way.
JOURNALIST: How do you think about, I guess, your apprenticeship and your experience as a tradesman about workplace safety, anything particularly notable when it comes to [indistinct] premises?
ANGUS: Yeah, sure. Personally, I think something that is coming a long way is ‑ that affected me in my personal industry is things like silica and sort of ventilation issues, I think are sort of starting to really be brought to light, so that's just point one instance that affected me personally, yeah.
JOURNALIST: So I guess it's sort of awareness about the sort of issues in relation to the [indistinct]?
ANGUS: Absolutely, yeah.
JOURNALIST: Thanks Angus, appreciate it.