Doorstop Interview, Canberra

MARGOT MCNEILL, CEO CANBERRA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY: Good morning and welcome to CIT Bruce campus, our nursing simulation room. The Diploma of Nursing is a critical skill shortage area, and we're very proud of the work that we do here at CIT preparing the students for this important work in their future. And it's great to be able to welcome the Ministers here to speak about important priorities for us as we progress the work in this space, so I'll hand over to Dr Leigh.

ANDREW LEIGH, MEMBER FOR FENNER: Thanks very much Margot, and thanks to you and your team for hosting us here at CIT Bruce this morning. We're actually in the electorate of Canberra, my colleague Alicia Payne is on well earnt maternity leave at the moment. So I'm stepping in as an ACT representative to welcome Minister Giles here to the ACT, and of course also to be here with my ACT colleague Minister Pettersson.

Woody Allen once said that 80 per cent of life is just showing up, and showing up all the way to the end of a qualification is absolutely critical, for finishing that qualification and being able to work and in your chosen profession. What the Albanese Government is doing with the skills completion pathways and vocational training is aiming to tackle a problem that has been long recognised but neglected by previous governments. We not only want to see more people going into vocational training through our Free TAFE programs, but more people completing those qualifications and dealing with the skill shortages that exist across our economy. Minister Giles has been at the heart of delivering this critical reform for the nation.

ANDREW GILES, MINISTER FOR SKILLS AND TRAINING: Thanks very much, Andrew. It's great to be here with you, although I think when you talk about 80 per cent, I think we all understand that Dr Leigh is a 100 per cent kind of guy in all that you do, whether it's on the running field, writing or in the really important work that you are doing as a key member of the economic team of the Albanese Government.

I'm pleased to be here with the team at CIT led by Margot. Thank you for having us, and of course with my friend and colleague Michael Pettersson. I’m going to make an announcement with Michael in a moment. But first I want to touch on the wonderful opportunity we've had to spend a bit more time with Caitlin who really tells the story of what the Albanese Government is trying to do in the space of skills, opening the doors of opportunity, recognising the journeys that people are on and the barriers that can prevent someone fulfilling their aspirations and making their contribution. Caitlin is someone who I find utterly inspiring, and I'll be a bit disappointed when you pass those next two exams, because we won't have these opportunities to chat in this context, and I hope I don't see you in a hospital setting in the near future! Caitlin’s story as a Navy veteran and a single mum, who had a realisation that a career in the medical field was something that she wanted to do, and found that pathway through Free TAFE is one that is absolutely inspirational.

It's one story but it's also an exemplar of what we need to do as a nation and what the Albanese Government is committed to doing to breaking down all of those barriers that are holding people back. Caitlin speaks to the importance of Free TAFE. She's one of 725,000 Australians who've enrolled in Free TAFE, the vast majority of them women, a large number of them First Nations, many from the regions, many from cohorts who've previously been shut out from tertiary education. 725,000 stories that speak to the importance of Free TAFE. 210,000 of those have already completed their qualifications and are making their contributions, whether it's in nursing, whether it's in early childhood education and care, technology or construction. Free TAFE is making a big difference, and as Caitlin reminded me too, so too paid prac placements.

But the really big investment we're making alongside Free TAFE is the National Skills Agreement, a five-year partnership between the Albanese Government and state and territory governments, in particular of course the Barr Government here, to make sure that we're really turning around the skills crisis we inherited from the former government. This is a $30 billion investment, it's about turning around a long-term decline that's impacting the lives of all Australians. And a big part of it, as Andrew Leigh just said, it's not just encouraging more people to get into those vocational courses, that are so critical to filling some of those shortages, whether its in the electrical trades, in manufacturing or the care sector, it’s about making sure we are doing absolutely everything to ensure people could complete their courses and that's what I'm here to announce today.

Building on the understandings that are found within the ACT that have been brought together by my friend, Michael Pettersson, we're committing jointly $14 million to ensure that more Canberrans not only get to start their course or their apprenticeship, but get the support they need to finish it. Through building a better research base so that we understand what are the barriers and how we can solve them. Through having a text service that we know has worked in other jurisdictions, in particular the New South Wales jurisdiction. To thinking about a Careers Hub providing their supports. And other supports that make sure that everyone's learning journey is effectively supported. So thank you, Michael, for the opportunity to work closely together in terms of making sure that every Canberran gets every chance to get the skills they want to do the jobs we need, and I'll hand over to you.

MICHAEL PETTERSSON, ACT MINISTER FOR SKILLS, TRAINING AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS: Thank you Andrew, good morning. I’d like to begin by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land we’re gathered on, the Ngunnawal people, as well as all families with connections to these lands. I’d like to acknowledge the CIT staff and students that are here with us this morning, also like to acknowledge my parliamentary colleagues, Dr Andrew Leigh and Andrew Giles.

Today, we launch the $14 million joint investment into improved completions here in the ACT. This is an important investment in supporting learners in the ACT to complete the skills that they need to be a part of our economy into the future. Here in the ACT we have roughly 5,000 apprentices at any given time. And for those in the very first year, one third of first year apprentices cancel their training. Now, as our city grows, we know that we will need more skills and more people to work in the industries of the future. So it's so vital that we ensure more learners complete their courses, the training and make sure that their apprenticeships go to fruition. This joint investment with Commonwealth will see the ACT Government and Commonwealth Government invest in a completions grant program, which will provide wraparound support to cohorts or individuals. We seek to mirror the text support service that is in place in New South Wales. We’ll also seek to establish a Careers Hub to provide real guidance to learners, who are too often reliant upon employers or things they hear around the traps instead of actual solid grounded advice. We also want to better understand how we can improve completions here in ACT.

I acknowledge the work that has gone on nationally to understand what steps we should take nationally to improve completions, but to fully understand what is happening on the ground here in ACT does require further work, and that's what we are committed to undertaking. So, I want to thank once again the Commonwealth for their partnership in supporting vocational education, the ACT has never had a better partner in the Commonwealth than one we have right now when it comes to vocational education.

JOURNALIST: Any particular reasons why students are dropping out? Maybe that’s a question for you or CIT?

GILES: Maybe the three of us can have a go. We understand that there are heaps of reasons why people don't complete their course. We understand that this has been a long-running issue. It's pleasing to see the most recent data showing across the nation an improvement in the rates. There's probably three points that I want to make. There are some things we know, cost of living pressures are a key issue. And one thing that I've been really pleased to see is our Key Apprenticeship Program that's demonstrating an 85 per cent retention rate after first year, compared to the statistics that Michael was just talking about. That's a program that's about giving five payments of $2,000 to apprentices in key trades, connected to energy or building houses. And we recognise that having this structure is making a real difference.

We also know that there are some courses that are undertaken not to complete the course but to gain a particular unit of competency that may be relevant to someone's trade. So finding the data piece that actually reflects the real interest of the learner is a critical piece here. And I think that's one of the reasons why we do need more research on this, this is something that I've got Jobs and Skills Australia looking at. And obviously it's a matter of concern to Michael Pettersson and the ACT Government.

I guess the other point that I'd like to make is that we also appreciate that over a four-year apprenticeship, a lot can happen in a person's life. And that’s really what this program, this element of the National Skills Agreement is all about. Better understanding how we can accommodate the individual circumstances of a person. It may well be that someone is really terrific at the manual part of their job as a tradesperson, they may struggle a bit with the maths or the physics in an electrical apprenticeship. How do we find the most effective way of supporting them, in a destigmatised way. Or alternatively if people have issues with their mental well-being, how we find effective supports that can be accessed. These are the things that we need to better understand. This is what this $40 million investment is all about.

JOURNALIST: We’re at a medical facility today, are there any particular courses that students are dropping out of?

GILES: This is a course, we've just heard, has about an 80 per cent completion rate. We know that electrical is one that also has consistently quite a high completion rate. I guess the other point I'd make about this is as we try and get a better evidence base, one thing that we know in traditional trades is undertaking a pre-apprenticeship, a Certificate II program is a really good indicator of completion. That's one of the reasons why this is on the Free TAFE list. And we've just been talking yesterday to three construction pathway students about exactly that. So we do see a big variation between courses, part of that is perhaps explained by the nature of the course. But part of it, as I said earlier, is explained by the fact that there are some courses which are a requirement of undertaking work, there are some courses where it may be that a person is only looking to get some of the units in the course to be able to do the work that they want to do.

JOURNALIST: You’re confident the $14 million investment will pay for itself?

GILES: Oh yeah, no doubt. I'll hand over to Margot to talk a little bit about what lies behind it. But how these implementation plans work that are agreed between the jurisdictions and the Commonwealth, we've got a broad sense of what we are looking for which is improved completions. We understand that what happens in the ACT will necessarily be different to what happens in Western Australia or Victoria where I'm from. So we rely on the understanding of each jurisdiction, but the initiatives that are being referred to here rely on an understanding of things that work, particularly we've both talked about the text line that's been really successful in New South Wales. So that's an example of an intervention that works.

PETTERSSON: We see the highest completion rates in courses that directly link to qualification or accreditation or licensing. What we see in other courses, where that's not necessarily the case, sometimes there are actually employment offers before you complete your qualification. And so one of the interesting parts of this conversation is actually recognising that our data right now doesn't necessarily properly capture what a good outcome is. For a learner that is seeking employment as their ultimate goal, for them to maybe cancel their training, but that's because they've secured the full-time employment they're seeking, that's not necessarily a bad outcome. We should recognise it for what it is. We also do want them to actually complete those qualifications because as our city grows, we need those qualified skilled individuals to be part of that economy into the future. And what was the second part of the question, coming into this late.

There are four main pillars as to what we are announcing today. The completions grant program which is seeking RTOs, employers, community organisations to put proposals to us for the wraparound support that they can provide to their cohorts or individuals. We're not talking kind of like an income replacement program here. We're talking holistic wraparound supports, things like child care support. Support with transport, or maybe assistance in getting those job ready skills, as people transition out of learning. To the text support program, we have seen the wonderful results in New South Wales where simply checking in with learners about how they are going and giving them an opportunity to ask questions or seek help is really making a difference in their outcomes. So we're seeking to emulate that and we want to make sure that we've got ongoing conversation with all learners here in ACT.

The Careers Hub is something we're hoping will provide a more permanent place for learners to go and seek the advice and guidance that they need as they set up and start their careers. At the moment, commonly learners are reliant upon word of mouth or maybe just their employer. As opposed to getting a more holistic, and I guess, maybe evidence-based advice to the opportunities that are available to them in their career. And then the final piece is that research. Most of the work that has been done in regard to completions is national work. Now, the ACT economy is very different to the rest of the country. We recognise that our economy has different pressures and different things occurring within it, so we need to make sure that we have the advice that we need to make sure that we tailor these programs into the future to respond to what's happening on the ground here.

JOURNALIST: One more question. So there was a large federal investment in the EV workshop. Any update on how that course is doing and what the completion rates are for that one? Is it meeting the demand?

MCNEILL: The AV space as you can imagine is a rapidly growing area and what that Centre of Excellence, which is a National Centre of Excellence is doing is prioritising the development of materials and curriculum to be able to upskill the teaching teams across the nation. So that's been very successful. We've had applications and interests from many of the other TAFEs because as you can understand, we work in a network of TAFEs, so that we reduce the duplication that happens across the different teams, and that is a huge growth area in many of the jurisdictions. So we're happy to report that that developmental work is well underway.

JOURNALIST: And student numbers, you're happy with that?

MCNEILL: Yes, we're happy. We're working with primarily the teaching teams in the other jurisdictions at this stage and upskilling individuals along that journey.

GILES: I might just add very briefly to Margot’s response, the EV Centre of Excellence was the first nationally-networked Centre of Excellence established under the National Skills Agreement. What I’ve learned as I go around the country is there’s enormous interest in the learnings that are being developed there. As Margot said, it's principally about recognising this is a field of work that's changing rapidly as consumer habits change when it comes to the uptake of electric vehicles. What I'm seeing around the country is in dealerships in the suburbs of Brisbane, in TAFE campuses in New South Wales, people talking about the significance of the work that's being done at CIT's Fyshwick campus, to their development of the training tools to make sure that the next generation of technicians have every opportunity to build their skills and of course be safe in looking after vehicles that are changing very rapidly. Thanks very much everyone.